Do You Have A Trouble Free M11 or M11M?

[Derbyshire Man]

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1 minute ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Too many, as repair times seems to be several months, so they can’t handle the claims.

Private equity ownership is very much a double edged sword, they can bring the huge investment needed for the move to digital etc. However focus on profit/brand/diffusion value (watches anyone) means that in some cases (no idea here specifically) core activities end up relatively secondary in the eye of the original customers. It’s all about return on investment or exit. 

[Knorp]

20 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

Too many, as repair times seems to be several months, so they can’t handle the claims.

That's not what I am referring to.

[kiwidad]

On 5/2/2024 at 7:09 AM, fotografr said:

That's a straw man argument. You create a scenario that doesn't exist, then try to ridicule it's merits. I've not read anything here that suggests Nikon and Canon digital cameras are all trouble free. All any of us can do is relate our own first hand experience,  as I did earlier in this thread. I switched from film to digital in 1999 and used Nikons and Nikon's until I retired in 2015. I always had duplicate camera bodies and always upgraded to new versions as soon as they were available. Personally, I never had a single failure of any kind with any of them. Beyond my experience, I make no claims whatsoever about whether other people may or may not have had problems with their Nikons and Canons. 

My take on this isnt anything to do with the ole straw man. Folk are trashing leica on this. I consider the occasional battery pull normal as it occurred in every brand I ever owned and I go back to .8MP point and shoot digital. its almost like Leica have to be more perfect in an area of technology which is cutting edge. Folk complain when leica don't jump on the bandwagon and wait a long time to release a product and then say they are behind the times, and not its the reverse. So to me having to pop the battery every now or then doesn't seem abnormal... most of the time I realize it was my screw up (long exposure by accident with noise reduction on for instance seems like. a lockup with rear screen off!

 

[cj3209]

I own both the M11 and M11m.  Both were purchased pre-owned.  I only had one freeze where the camera was doing something and I was impatient; so I had to pull out the battery.  Other than that, both cameras have been fully operational.

[fotografr]

5 hours ago, kiwidad said:

My take on this isnt anything to do with the ole straw man. Folk are trashing leica on this. I consider the occasional battery pull normal as it occurred in every brand I ever owned and I go back to .8MP point and shoot digital. its almost like Leica have to be more perfect in an area of technology which is cutting edge. Folk complain when leica don't jump on the bandwagon and wait a long time to release a product and then say they are behind the times, and not its the reverse. So to me having to pop the battery every now or then doesn't seem abnormal... most of the time I realize it was my screw up (long exposure by accident with noise reduction on for instance seems like. a lockup with rear screen off!

 

You quoted my comment, then went on to discuss something completely unrelated to what I wrote. I'm not sure what your problem is, but I would ask again that you look at the title of this thread and try to stay on point. Thank you.

[Datsch]

So I did a count of people who had "trouble free cameras":  70

And "trouble cameras": 60

Most of the trouble free from this thread, most of the troubled from other threads.

Some people are mentioned more than once -- this is because they have or have had more than one M11

Full list here for transparency:

No Problems
FlashGordonPhotography
RobW0
bcaslis
marchyman
Sjz
gweber
hdmesa
eawholloway
EJS73
JTLeica
danfish
DavidERuck
Jon Warwick
Stevejack
lexffm
elmars
hmzimelka
Steadimann
paulholland27
la1402
Alex1976
Franky
ianforber
blaaberkat
rcusick
fsprow
LMBSGV
Budfox
Budfox
lct
tuna
DadDadDaddyo
DadDadDaddyo
thrid
Stef63
Ray Harrison
jgeenen
Knightspirit
MauroRau
Nitnaros
Jeeperdad
Knorp
Jamie Roberts
tom0511
tom0511
algrove
JohnQ
Malabito
SJH
SJH
SJH
Yarosuav
Yarosuav
scott kirkpatrick
scott kirkpatrick
soccerrick10
Kiwimac
Balta
Viv
lukeadair
cj3209
cj3209SrMi
SrMi
stevenhacker
hunterits
CVN
dcos
dcos
JohnQ

 

 

 

 

Problems
hjddd
Stevejack
Alex1976
Franky
Derbyshire Man
waltb
LikameLeica
chris7273
SrMi
hoolyproductions
Ecar
Ian Johnson
VJPGG
Gelatino
erudolph
HRJ
Tailwagger
ChampagneCharlie
Smogg
Photoworks
Gary Phillips
bilbrown
biojmo
fil-m
Photoboy96
geotrupede
fcracer
Eesand
johnbuckley
alaindi
DBAUDUI1
Krzysztof
CVN
scroy
IMAGEPOWER
Mojdeb
TerryB
TerryB
Peter_Hartland523
Peter_Hartland523
Edax
hmzimelka
MitchoIankov
Slange00
MQ_user
R4p70r
shirokurome
shirokurome
JuanLeon
jeri
Rod1
Summifux
Summifux
Summifux
ZHNL
ZHNL
ZHNL
North17
Christ lannoy
Theory

[kiwidad]

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On 5/6/2024 at 5:40 PM, fotografr said:

You quoted my comment, then went on to discuss something completely unrelated to what I wrote. I'm not sure what your problem is, but I would ask again that you look at the title of this thread and try to stay on point. Thank you.

You Made a statement and I answered and elaborated on why I disagreed...  perhaps you need to be more vocal on the folk trashing the m11 in here endnote those holding up! I give up! Believe whatever you choose!

[Smogg]

9 hours ago, Datsch said:

So I did a count of people who had "trouble free cameras":  70

And "trouble cameras": 60

Most of the trouble free from this thread, most of the troubled from other threads.

Some people are mentioned more than once -- this is because they have or have had more than one M11

Full list here for transparency:

No Problems
FlashGordonPhotography
RobW0
bcaslis
marchyman
Sjz
gweber
hdmesa
eawholloway
EJS73
JTLeica
danfish
DavidERuck
Jon Warwick
Stevejack
lexffm
elmars
hmzimelka
Steadimann
paulholland27
la1402
Alex1976
Franky
ianforber
blaaberkat
rcusick
fsprow
LMBSGV
Budfox
Budfox
lct
tuna
DadDadDaddyo
DadDadDaddyo
thrid
Stef63
Ray Harrison
jgeenen
Knightspirit
MauroRau
Nitnaros
Jeeperdad
Knorp
Jamie Roberts
tom0511
tom0511
algrove
JohnQ
Malabito
SJH
SJH
SJH
Yarosuav
Yarosuav
scott kirkpatrick
scott kirkpatrick
soccerrick10
Kiwimac
Balta
Viv
lukeadair
cj3209
cj3209SrMi
SrMi
stevenhacker
hunterits
CVN
dcos
dcos
JohnQ

 

 

 

 

Problems
hjddd
Stevejack
Alex1976
Franky
Derbyshire Man
waltb
LikameLeica
chris7273
SrMi
hoolyproductions
Ecar
Ian Johnson
VJPGG
Gelatino
erudolph
HRJ
Tailwagger
ChampagneCharlie
Smogg
Photoworks
Gary Phillips
bilbrown
biojmo
fil-m
Photoboy96
geotrupede
fcracer
Eesand
johnbuckley
alaindi
DBAUDUI1
Krzysztof
CVN
scroy
IMAGEPOWER
Mojdeb
TerryB
TerryB
Peter_Hartland523
Peter_Hartland523
Edax
hmzimelka
MitchoIankov
Slange00
MQ_user
R4p70r
shirokurome
shirokurome
JuanLeon
jeri
Rod1
Summifux
Summifux
Summifux
ZHNL
ZHNL
ZHNL
North17
Christ lannoy
Theory

You should mention me twice, I have 2 problematic M11s😀

[lct]

15 hours ago, Datsch said:

So I did a count of people who had "trouble free cameras":  70

And "trouble cameras": 60 [...]

As per your count, if i read it correctly, colleagues owning 2 cameras have problems or no problem with both apparently. Would you confirm?

[LeicaR10]

Datsch,    Thanks for the compilation.   You forgot me:  LeicaR10   I owned 3 M11 variants...all unreliable problem cameras and returned for swap outs for M10 variants and change.  As a working pro using M cameras, reliability especially in the field, is paramount.  I am happy for the other No Problem, M11 owners.  My happiness was found going back to the reliable M10 and variants.  r/ Mark

[lct]

26 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

[...] I owned 3 M11 variants...all unreliable problem cameras and returned for swap outs [...]

Like all "trouble cameras" users owning 2 M11 series cameras or more apparently, as if user behavior was a common cause in those issues.

Edited May 8, 2024 by lct

[fotografr]

9 hours ago, kiwidad said:

You Made a statement and I answered and elaborated on why I disagreed...  perhaps you need to be more vocal on the folk trashing the m11 in here endnote those holding up! I give up! Believe whatever you choose!

I have no interest in being vocal on the folk trashing the M11, nor on those supporting it. That was not and is not the purpose of this thread. Your position seems to be all or nothing. Because you had problems with your Canons, Nikon's and Fuji's, you want to make a broad conclusion that everybody with those cameras also has problems. Conversely, you want to conclude that since you have no problems with your M11, anybody else who says they do is just Leica bashing. Both positions are flawed and utter nonsense.

[fotografr]

Big thanks to Datsch for taking the time and effort to compile that list. I started to do it once and gave up. I think it's very illuminating.

[AllenB]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:29 PM, kiwidad said:

I consider the occasional battery pull normal as it occurred in every brand I ever owned and I go back to .8MP point and shoot digital.

 

That's pretty interesting because in all my years with multiple systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony) I don't recall having issues that required "the occasional battery pull", I guess I've been lucky.

[lct]

4 minutes ago, AllenB said:

That's pretty interesting because in all my years with multiple systems (Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, Sony) I don't recall having issues that required "the occasional battery pull", I guess I've been lucky.

Ditto, but I almost miss it on the M11, as I find the battery removal process amusing on this body.😉

Edited May 8, 2024 by lct

[AllenB]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:43 AM, fotografr said:

No, I've learned my lesson. I won't be starting any more threads. It's too much like being a politician. No matter what you say some people will agree and some will get pissed off.

Well, for what it's worth I appreciate the post/thread and have learned a lot from it.  I've been considering an m11 but the QC issues have been the main reason I haven't already purchased one so, thanks.  It's often difficult to determine if the complaints are just from people with the loudest voice, or if there's a fair percentage of cameras with issues, so threads like this can be helpful (at least from my standpoint).    

[fotografr]

3 hours ago, AllenB said:

Well, for what it's worth I appreciate the post/thread and have learned a lot from it.  I've been considering an m11 but the QC issues have been the main reason I haven't already purchased one so, thanks.  It's often difficult to determine if the complaints are just from people with the loudest voice, or if there's a fair percentage of cameras with issues, so threads like this can be helpful (at least from my standpoint).    

Thanks. It's also been helpful to me. I've been a M user for a very long time and the larger file size and higher dynamic range of the M11 appealed to me. What I've read on this thread and others like it contributed largely to my decision to get a Q3 rather than M11. No big deal to Leica because they get the money anyway. I get the same sensor and hopefully none of the freezes. Win win.

[Datsch]

6 hours ago, lct said:

As per your count, if i read it correctly, colleagues owning 2 cameras have problems or no problem with both apparently. Would you confirm?

A mixture. There were a few that had a good one and a bad one. Some had two good ones. Som,e had two bad ones.  Also people had an M11 and an M11M and someone even had an M11-P as well, three bodies, why not!

I don't think we can learn much from those handful of multi-camera owners ... other than they are Leica enthusiasts!

Edited May 8, 2024 by Datsch

[Datsch]

13 hours ago, Smogg said:

You should mention me twice, I have 2 problematic M11s😀

I can't edit that list now but thanks for sharing  your experience (although this is @fotografr 's thread on trouble-free cameras)

6 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Datsch,    Thanks for the compilation.   You forgot me:  LeicaR10   I owned 3 M11 variants...all unreliable problem cameras and returned for swap outs for M10 variants and change.  As a working pro using M cameras, reliability especially in the field, is paramount.  I am happy for the other No Problem, M11 owners.  My happiness was found going back to the reliable M10 and variants.  r/ Mark

I can't edit that list now but thanks for sharing your experience (although this is @fotografr 's thread on trouble-free cameras)

5 hours ago, fotografr said:

Big thanks to Datsch for taking the time and effort to compile that list. I started to do it once and gave up. I think it's very illuminating.

You're welcome, did not take that long. I am sure there are more examples that could be added to both the trouble-free and trouble lists.

Thank YOU for starting this positive and data-driven thread.

It is hard to assess this M11 situation. Personally, inferring nearly 50% trouble from those lists makes me want to run a mile and not buy one (sepcifically an M11-D). However, the if the odd freeze does not seem that big a deal to someone, then the odds of trouble-free-ness improve dramatically -- most of the 'trouble' list was from the freeze reporting thread and many of those were infrequent freezes or one that occur under very specific situations. That being said, I have only had one freeze in my photographic life, (a Pentax whilst attempting high-speed continuous shooting). It was a pain and a worry at the time so I understand people's concerns with freezing.

The big worry is of course a long return to Wetzlar with no replacement, and I don't know yet a way to count those -- however cameras with something that bad seem much less common than those with freezes, lost DNG, stripes and white-out overexposures. Those things seem to be "liveable with" rather than "send back to Wetzlar" ...

BTW, I do not deny the bad reality of those who have freezes weekly or even daily, but many of those reporting freezes seem to have them occur quite infrequently ...

For the purposes of my count, 'trouble' is simply any kind of trouble. ie the opposite of 'trouble-free' ...

Edited May 8, 2024 by Datsch

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[lct]

Just wait and see the next firmware update. Should come this month i've been told. Won't change anything to trouble free bodies but it should reassure some users hopefully.

Edited May 8, 2024 by lct