Lens Detail Recording in EXIF

[ChampagneCharlie]

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Hi all, looking for some advice, please. How do you all deal with recording lens details in exif using an M11? I have 20 or so 50mm lenses which I'd, ideally, like to be able to record individually via the in-camera lens detection menu (rather than lumping them all under one or two entries). My current method relies on adding metadata post-import, which is tedious and unreliable.

Any advice much appreciated.

#firstworldproblems

[lct]

Most of my 50mm lenses are either coded or hand-coded. If yours are not coded already, you may wish to hand-code them, which is easy to do with late VM and ZM lenses, thanks to a recessed part in their flange. This way the exif data will show the ID of the Leica lens corresponding to the code you chose. They won't show the real ID of the lens though. The only way to do this is to use software like File Multi Tool for Mac.

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[marchyman]

4 hours ago, lct said:

or hand-coded

 

You can't code a ZM (or any non-Leica) lens to get correct metadata.  You can get a focal length and maybe the aperture, but that's about it.  I believe post processing is the only way to get accurate info into the metadata.  With 20 or so 50 mm lenses I can see post processing becoming a burden, too. I don't have any good answers for ChampagneCharlie.

[Al Brown]

You cannot record lens detail during capture other than the one you choose in the menu if the lens is not coded. The lenses have no electronic contacts with the camera and if they are not 6-bit coded your only option is Leica's selection from their menu du jour.

Edited February 21 by Al Brown

[lct]

Just a snap to show what is possible to do with the M11 and a hand-coded lens.
Here a Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2 coded as Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph.
The 6-bit code painted on the flange of the lens is 000101.
The exif data of the DNG file say:
• Camera Model Name: Leica M11
• Lens ID: Summilux-M 1:1.4/50
• Exposure Program: Aperture-priority AE
• Aperture Value: 8.0
• Shutter Speed Value: 1/180
• ISO Speed: 64
To correct the lens ID, if needed, suffice it to use software like File Multi Tool for Mac.
This way, the lens ID will become, in my example, Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2. FWIW.

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[marchyman]

22 hours ago, lct said:

This way, the lens ID will become, in my example, Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2. FWIW.

Yes. That works when you have a 1:1 relationship between your coding and the actual lens used.  The process breaks when you have "20 or so 50mm lenses" because there are not 20 or so codings for 50mm lenses available.  It looks to me like you'd have to note which lens was used for which images at time of use and then do the manual update to set lens ID, etc., in the metadata.  As ChampagneCharlie said, that can be tedious and unreliable.

[Henners]

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I guess if shooting RAW (so the lens corrections aren't baked in to the JPEG) you could code each lens to any lens and then once in lightroom select all of X lens and update the meta data to be correct.

This way it would be much quicker to batch process each lens as long as you kept a lookup table so you know that the lens coded as a 90mm 2.8 lens is actually the Voigtlander 50mm f2 lens or whatever. 

Edited February 22 by Henners

[Al Brown]

8 minutes ago, Henners said:

I guess if shooting RAW (so the lens corrections aren't baked in to the JPEG) you could code each lens to any lens and then once in lightroom select all of X lens and update the meta data to be correct.

This way it would be much quicker to batch process each lens as long as you kept a lookup table so you know that the lens coded as a 90mm 2.8 lens is actually the Voigtlander 50mm f2 lens or whatever. 

Sounds cool on paper but imagine a one-shot-one lens situation and knowing what to code each one from a list only to be processing each batch later. I think this is what OP tried to avoid but it is, unfortunately, not possible. There is no simple and fast on the fly solution to the matter.

[Henners]

I can see the only way is to create a Lightroom plugin or use some kind of exif processing software that will do the fake lens conversions I mentioned previously, automatically on importing the photos. Like Al Brown says there doesn't seem to be any way to do it on the fly, only to try and make things easier when transferring to a computer. It can definitely be done with a marginally technical solution as long as it fits nicely in to the workflow.

[lct]

54 minutes ago, marchyman said:

Yes. That works when you have a 1:1 relationship between your coding and the actual lens used.  The process breaks when you have "20 or so 50mm lenses" because there are not 20 or so codings for 50mm lenses available.  It looks to me like you'd have to note which lens was used for which images at time of use and then do the manual update to set lens ID, etc., in the metadata [...]

I must have something like a dozen 50mm M lenses. Most of them are coded, a couple of them uncoded and the remaining ones hand-coded. Not that much of a problem really. Just to take an example, my VM 50/2.5 is coded as a Summarit 50/2.4, VM 50/1.5 SC v2 as a Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph and ZM 50/2 as a Summicron 50/2. I can even recognize the latter which has not the same code number as my Summicron v4, v5 or apo.

[evikne]

I have used the LensTagger LR plugin to manually change to correct names on many lenses. It was quite easy to distinguish them from each other based on time and place and memory. I've never had as many as 20 lenses with the same focal length though!

But once you get done with the job of renaming the lenses in previous images, get used to doing this procedure after each import, while you still remember well which lens you used.

[250swb]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:45 PM, ChampagneCharlie said:

Hi all, looking for some advice, please. How do you all deal with recording lens details in exif using an M11? 

#firstworldproblems

Remembering and looking at the photograph, just as people did before Exif files. Perhaps people had better recall back then????

[lct]

23 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Remembering and looking at the photograph, just as people did before Exif files. Perhaps people had better recall back then????

Or we had less years and lenses 😄

 

[adan]

In my relatively brief period of using film Ms (2001-2006), if I needed to "record" the lens used (say, for comparisons/tests), I would simply snap a picture of the lens I was going to use for the next group of shots.

Then, when I was going to change to the "comparison" lens, I would photograph IT, and then put it on the camera and take the pictures with it.

Analog EXIF as a sequence of film exposures. 🤪

[picture of lens X]...mount lens X.... [picture with lens X #1] [picture with lens X #2] [picture with lens X #3] [picture with lens X #4] [picture of lens Y]...mount lens Y.... [picture with lens Y #1] [picture with lens Y #2] [picture with lens Y #3] [picture with lens Y #4].....etc.

I've done the same thing occasionally (as in - once every 2-3 years!) with digital Ms - but that is obviously just an "aide-memoire," not actual EXIF data. Still requires EXIF editing afterwards.

Alternatives - just fire a blank frame between lens changes, and keep a pen-and-paper notebook record of which lens was used oin what order. 😉

Just like Ansel Adams did: https://fineartamerica.com/featured/ansel-adams-photography-exposure-record-log-wingsdomain-art-and-photography.html

....................

The only way the camera could record "bespoke EXIF" would be if Leica, out of the goodness of their hearts, added a "User Lens Entry" menu line to the manual lens selection list.

It would still be cumbersome - requiring a menu-dive with every lens change, and likely significant typing (on the tiny LCD).

But, in theory, something like:

- Open lens selection menu - scroll to a hypothetical new top line in the list (between the 135s and the 16-18-21) reading "MANUAL LENS SPECIFICATION."
- select that line - a virtual alphanumeric "keyboard" pops up on the LCD, same as for adding  © info or changing default file/folder names).
- type in, for example, "LEITZ 50MM ELMAR F/3.5 V2 SN 1234567" or "VOIGTLANDER 50 NOKTON V1 2002." Press "Done" or "Save" button.

It is possible Leica could allow for "permanently" saving multiple such "personal" manual lens lines - but 20 would probably be pushing the limits of the amount of memory Leica would care to devote to that process.

And a defect would be that there would be no recognizable automatic correction patterns (vignetting, color vignetting) available for such entries - which is the real technical purpose of Leica including lens EXIF at all.

Enter "LEITZ 21MM SUPER-ANGULON F/3.4" or "VOIGTLANDER 15MM F/4.5 V1"- and one would still get purple and cyan stains on the pictures. To the camera and firmware, such a manual entry would simply be a random ASCII text string (no different, or more recognizable, than entering "AZR3-SK-//917&AXQ7"), and not data it could interpret and use.

[pippy]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:45 PM, ChampagneCharlie said:

I have 20 or so 50mm lenses which I'd, ideally, like to be able to record individually...Any advice much appreciated...

Pencil and Paper?

Seriously; just take notes.

Philip.

Edited February 22 by pippy

[ChampagneCharlie]

16 hours ago, pippy said:

Pencil and Paper?

Seriously; just take notes.

Philip.

If that was intended to help, it didn't. Although it doesn't seem like that was your intent.

[ChampagneCharlie]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. On the plus side, it looks like I'm not missing a simple solution to my simple issue. As Adan suggests, some form of user entry in one of the menus would be what i'm looking/wishing for to add in whether a particular shot is taken with a Xenon, Summar or some variation of the menu-listed lenses.

LCT, i appreciate your thoughts- merci. Marchyman, I see you understand my pain :). Adan, the picture of the lens idea is a good one, given the lack of a proper solution- thank you. Al Brown, Evikine & Henners, good imput, much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[ChampagneCharlie]

18 hours ago, 250swb said:

Remembering and looking at the photograph, just as people did before Exif files. Perhaps people had better recall back then????

Waste of time reponse.

[pippy]

14 minutes ago, ChampagneCharlie said:

If that was intended to help, it didn't. Although it doesn't seem like that was your intent.

I was being serious and, incidentally, it is always my intention to help.

I have no idea of any camera where it would be possible to differentiate between 20 different 50mm lenses the majority of which will have no means of identifying itself to the camera body without inputting data that, in turn, could affect in-camera capture. Perhaps you know differently?

I have a few 50mm lenses myself and, if using more than one on any given day, have worked out a system which works for me.

P.

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[ChampagneCharlie]

2 minutes ago, pippy said:

I was being serious and, incidentally, it is always my intention to help.

I have no idea of any camera where it would be possible to differentiate between 20 different 50mm lenses the majority of which will have no means of identifying itself to the camera body without inputting data that, in turn, could affect in-camera capture. Perhaps you know differently?

I have a few 50mm lenses myself and, if using more than one on any given day, have worked out a system which works for me.

P.

Then I'm I'm happy to be corrected, and thank you for your input. However, I'd prefer a better solution than maintaining multiple decades worth of 'pencil and paper' records.

I don't think it's totally unreasonable of me to wish my 10k camera body to be able to accurately record the lens that I'm taking a particular image with, especially if said lens is made by said body manufacturer.

Maybe in M12...