Apo-Summicron-R 90/2 or Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100/2.8 for landscape on SL type 601 ?

[MattiasAndersson]

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I use Macro-Elmarit-R 60/2.8 with Leica L to R adapter today and want a standard tele.

Landscape, most in focus, so not fully open.

The weight difference is relevant, the 90 is more expensive but less weight and seems to be more comfortable to use ( macro is not imortant as I have the 60)

How is the focusing of the 100/2.8? Short travel 3 m to inf? (different in use to the 90/2 ?)

Are they different in how they work with the SL sensor, I expect them both to have very little chromatic aberration.

And last, would an Apo-SL 75 or 90 be significantly much better on the SL ? (I prefer manual focus)

Thankyou/M

Edited December 21, 2023 by MattiasAndersson

[topoxforddoc]

Why not go for the 90/2.8 Elmarit-R? Great lens, much cheaper and light too

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[AZN]

FWIW I have found a zoom telephoto to be more useful for landscape work.

I have the 100-APO-Macro, but only bring it along when I know I'll need to get in close.

Otherwise, the Leica VARIO-ELMAR-R 80–200mm f/4 (11281) does the job fine. There is also an APO version: Leica Vario APO Elmarit 70-180/2.8 R (11279)

Yes they are physically large and heavy (and the APO is very expensive!)

Edited December 21, 2023 by AZN

[Stuart Richardson]

I had the 100mm 2.8 APO on the Leica R for years and it was my favorite lens. It is exceptionally good. It will be better in the closer ranges, for the obvious reason that it is a macro lens. I have the 90mm APO Summicron in M mount and it performs extremely well on the SL2, though it does not hold up quite as well close up and wider open as compared to dedicated macro lenses. It is noticeably better than the 90-280mm, which is probably one of the best telephoto zooms of all time, so I would think the R version (same formula) will still be fantastic. Optically, I think both the 90mm and 100mm are extremely close and extremely good. Both will do brilliantly on the SL2, let alone the SL. The newer 90mm APO SL is even more exceptional (as is the 75mm). To give you an idea, already at f2 it is about 85% contrast at 40lpmm, while the older lenses are around 60%. The new lens is so sharp even at close distance that it is almost certainly sharper than even the 100mm APO at the close range. The biggest difference will likely be additional microcontrast...a bit more snap and a total absence of longitudinal chromatic aberration. The older APO lenses are APO at the point of focus, while the new ones are APO in the out of focus areas as well, which is experienced as showing no shift towards green or magenta in the bokeh. I have found that the 50mm APO Summicron SL is as sharp as my S 120mm APO Macro in close range, so I have taken to using it for artwork reproduction if it is easier to have a 50mm than a 120mm. The new lenses are that good...still, the differences between the 90 and 100mm R lenses will not be that huge on 24mp, which is a testament to how good those designs were themselves.

In terms of focusing, the 100mm has a notably damped focus...pretty tight and a good amount of travel. It has been awhile, so I cannot recall how much to get to 3m, but probably at least a half turn of the ring. It is multiple turns to rack it all the way out to 1:2. The 90mm APO will be a lot less travel from infinity to close focus and should also be easier to turn, as it was designed for further distances, not precise focusing in the macro range.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[MattiasAndersson]

Thank you Stuart for detailed information, a used SL 75 is not very far from APO R 90.

The APO R 90 with adapter is similar in weight also...

[Stuart Richardson]

If it were me I would go with the SL lenses, as they are spectacular, particularly for landscape use. I don't think I have ever heard of anyone saying a single negative thing about the 75mm...that said, if you are truly wedded to MF, the R lens will have a nicer feel. But having auto aperture and autofocus can be great, and using the spot AF point and back button focus is not really much different in terms of precision.

[davidmknoble]

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@MattiasAndersson, since your title is regarding landscape work, even though I am very partial to the R lenses (all the ones noted here) it is in part because I still shoot film in the R6.2, R8 an R9,  That said, @Stuart Richardson is correct and points to another feature of using the SL lenses.  Like the S system, you can zone focus precisely with the SL lenses by using the information on the top display.  This is invaluable when using filters and without, because you can set the f/stop to get precisely what you want in focus without guessing.  When shooting at the coast, I prefer a narrow range of shutter speeds and I can make sure that I still get infinity to my foreground in focus.  Just another thought.

[MattiasAndersson]

Thank you all, the obvious lens to really improve (landscape) on my Macro Elmarit R 1:2.8/60 would be a APO Summicron SL 2/75. I have found an APO Macro Elmarit R 1:2.8/100 that I will test first (also to get a feel for that image proportions, FOV).

As I'm doing this as my hobby for myself I can wait until I find an opurtunity on aAPO SL.

Happy new year/M

[otto.f]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:52 PM, MattiasAndersson said:

less weight and seems to be more comfortable to use ( macro is not imortant as I have the 60)

That’s true. I know the 100 only from trying it to decide whether I would like to own it. It has a very long thread which is a bit cumbersome in practical use unless you do mainly portrait for which it was meant. The 90 is the same as the M version which I own for a long time and still find it stunning every time. It is much more handy to focus in general but also with portraits. I also think that the extra tele of the 100 makes him not the first choice for landscape, but that’s of course in the mind of the photographer. It’s bokeh is one of the best but the 90 can really keep up with him. 
The SL lenses are much more clinical to my taste and personally I wouldn’t walk away from the handfull of terrific R lenses that still exist and all have their own unique character, which I don’t see in the SL line.

Edited December 27, 2023 by otto.f

[davidmknoble]

@otto.f I agree the character of the R lenses is superb (many of them).  I also agree I wouldn’t necessarily sell them for other modern SL lenses.  However, I also think that the SL lenses have their place and next to a 25 year old R lens, they can look more clinical, but they are also sharp corner to corner - which works really well for landscape work.

In the S system, one could say the same.  The S lenses stopped down to 9.5 - 13 end up very clinically sharp, corner to corner, and still draw very well on modern sensors.

It sounds like Mattias is starting slow and working his way into other lenses, which I applaud.  

In terms of the 90, 100, 60 R lenses, the 60 is the oldest and a nice field of view, but the finer details are a little lacking especially on the corners at infinity.  Close up sand shots and detail shots it does well.  The 100 is the next oldest and the bokeh is a little nervous at times to me, but with the El pro attachment it does wonders in macro work - again for details.  The 90 is the newest and, IMHO, has the best out of focus areas of the three with a smooth blending and transition.  It is also the most expensive.

Ultimately, you cannot go wrong with a lens you use over and over as you get to know it.  Looking forward to some images Mattias!

and yes, Happy new year! D.

[mokona]

and what about an APO 2x extender to go with the 60 elmarit ?

[otto.f]

1 hour ago, mokona said:

and what about an APO 2x extender to go with the 60 elmarit ?

True, the APO 2x is very good but in practice the starting point of 5.6 won’t make you happy on a longer term.