Fix or replace vulcanite

[iamgroot40]

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Hello,

 

I just got a dream camera of mine M2 Original BP 1005* Serial. I am not plaining on keeping on self I want to still use as what its made to do so. I had one side of the vulcanite flaking off should I send to try to repair and patch with other pieces plus what I have left of re skin hurt it that bad in terms of value? On the book note the rest seems to be great just change it was one corner started to crumble. 

 

 

Thanks again move to hear your guys thoughts, Austin 

[TomB_tx]

I've tried both to repair and to re-cover. The repair (small areas) looked good, but before long larger areas came loose and I could tell much was not really adhered to the body anymore.

I've used Aki-Asahi pre-cut skins with great success on IIIf and other ltm models, M 2 & 3, and other makes of old SLRs. They have textures that are a vey close match to the original Leica, so I can no longer tell what I've re-covered and what is original. 

DAG camera also supplied me with a pre-cut replacement for the M3 back door, that fits perfect and looks original.

I also got a new precut cover for a Yashica TLR from Camera Leather  that worked well.

I should note I don't care about resale value - I don't sell any.

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[spydrxx]

Go with Aki Asahi. He is reasonable and replacing the vulcanite isn't a big deal or even very hard. You must remove all of it to a smooth surface, and then carefully position the replacement, with a little alcohol dabbed underneath so you have a chance to reposition everything. The last M2 I did took about an hour total. Lots of videos on the web. Good luck...it makes a great difference in the beholder's eyes. I've done about 7-8 cameras over the years

[Pyrogallol]

I used Aki Asahi for this Nikon and it fitted easily. The original Nikon covering was thinner than Leica vulcanite.

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[frame-it]

31 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I used Aki Asahi for this Nikon and it fitted easily. The original Nikon covering was thinner than Leica vulcanite.

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gorgeous lens

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, iamgroot40 said:

I had one side of the vulcanite flaking off should I send to try to repair and patch with other pieces plus what I have left of re skin hurt it that bad in terms of value? On the book note the rest seems to be great just change it was one corner started to crumble. 

A tidy, well-maintained camera will provide more value. That's value to you as the photographer, and value to others when you no longer need the camera.

The only exception would be an especially rare model, or one with collectible-grade provenance (i.e.: owned by a famous photographer). M2's are not considered rare, for the most part.

[earleygallery]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

A tidy, well-maintained camera will provide more value. That's value to you as the photographer, and value to others when you no longer need the camera.

The only exception would be an especially rare model, or one with collectible-grade provenance (i.e.: owned by a famous photographer). M2's are not considered rare, for the most part.

Original BP M2's are quite rare/valuable in the overall scheme of things.

Depending on how much has flaked off you could try some patch repairs (there's black stuff you can buy that you can apply, model to match the texture and sets hard - it's been mentioned here before, search and you'll find it).

Do that and/or use a half case to protect what you have.

Otherwise yes, it's a case of scraping off the lot and fitting a new cover the the colour/style of your choice, but that will probably have an effect on value if it bothers you.

[qqphot]

It won't actually be Vulcanite any more, but the Aki-Asahi skins have excellent appearance and texture, are more durable than old Vulcanite, and are easily removed and replaced if damaged. Unless you especially need to keep the camera in its exact historical condition, you're better off re-skinning, and the appearance will be almost indistinguishable.

[Shac]

Another recommendation for Aki-Asahi skins.

[JMF]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:29 PM, iamgroot40 said:

Hello,

 

I just got a dream camera of mine M2 Original BP 1005* Serial. I am not plaining on keeping on self I want to still use as what its made to do so. I had one side of the vulcanite flaking off should I send to try to repair and patch with other pieces plus what I have left of re skin hurt it that bad in terms of value? On the book note the rest seems to be great just change it was one corner started to crumble. 

 

 

Thanks again move to hear your guys thoughts, Austin 

Hello,

I had an original BP M2 with worn vulcanite and replaced the vulcanite for an Aki Asahi.

It looked clean but the camera had lost some of its original charm somehow...

You might consider using it as is and think again sometime later .

Best, JM

Edited November 23, 2023 by JMF

[250swb]

It would help if we could see how much vulcanite has flaked off.

[pippy]

20 hours ago, BernardC said:

...M2's are not considered rare, for the most part...

For the most part, yes, but as James mentioned a bit earlier (post #7) original Black Paint M2 bodies are an exception and, at the moment, decent examples tend to be priced somewhere around the £25,000 to £30,000 mark. A lot, of course, depends on originality and condition so if the current Vulcanite isn't too bad as-is then it might make sense - from a financial point of view - to retain what there still is and patch it up.

Unfortunately - if my own experience is anything to go by - once Vulcanite starts to crumble the situation can only worsen and (IMX again) quite rapidly at that. Not having a 'Collector Grade' M2 I elected to re-skin my own camera with the oft-mentioned Aki-Asahi set and it does look fabulous so I, too, would heartily recommend their product if a replacement is going to be the best route.

Philip.

[250swb]

I think trends change and it's worth taking note of where current thinking is going. I'm fully in favour of having a camera to use, and twenty years ago I doubt anybody would question removing old vulcanite, but we have to be careful about invoking old thinking. Twenty years ago in a parallel world of collectibles at a Pebble Beach Concours for a car to win it had to be fully restored, nothing else would get a look in, but now 'barn finds' complete with dust can be winners based on originality. For collectors of any sort the world is running out of original things and these are now fast becoming far more valuable than perfection. So I think you've got to be careful about saying rip it off.

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

I think trends change and it's worth taking note of where current thinking is going. I'm fully in favour of having a camera to use, and twenty years ago I doubt anybody would question removing old vulcanite, but we have to be careful about invoking old thinking. Twenty years ago in a parallel world of collectibles at a Pebble Beach Concours for a car to win it had to be fully restored, nothing else would get a look in, but now 'barn finds' complete with dust can be winners based on originality. For collectors of any sort the world is running out of original things and these are now fast becoming far more valuable than perfection. So I think you've got to be careful about saying rip it off.

I agree, but my conclusion is different. We don't know what future collectors will value, so there is no point in second-guessing them. We can guess that certain collectors will place a premium on "as-new" cameras, and on cameras that were used by famous photographers. Those should probably be left alone, or receive minimal service (from a well-respected technician) if they are inoperable. Everything else falls within a grey zone. I don't think that an old repair/service materially affects the value of a camera today, provided that it was done well, and didn't change the original specification.

The BP M2 discussed falls within this grey zone. It isn't pristine, and no special provenance was mentioned. I wouldn't hesitate to perform any needed service, especially since the owner intends to use it. This will become part of the camera's history when it finds a new owner, in a few decades. For all we know, the vulcanite could have been changed 40 years ago.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

I agree, but my conclusion is different. We don't know what future collectors will value, so there is no point in second-guessing them. We can guess that certain collectors will place a premium on "as-new" cameras, and on cameras that were used by famous photographers. Those should probably be left alone, or receive minimal service (from a well-respected technician) if they are inoperable. Everything else falls within a grey zone. I don't think that an old repair/service materially affects the value of a camera today, provided that it was done well, and didn't change the original specification.

The BP M2 discussed falls within this grey zone. It isn't pristine, and no special provenance was mentioned. I wouldn't hesitate to perform any needed service, especially since the owner intends to use it. This will become part of the camera's history when it finds a new owner, in a few decades. For all we know, the vulcanite could have been changed 40 years ago.

I was simply pointing out there is now a crossover point that has never existed before. There are now two equal markets for a BP M2, original or restored, so you don't have to try and second guess future collectors, it's real now. A BP M2 is not longer just an old camera, the value of beaten up examples has risen considerably and collectors are refining their criteria based on availability. And while it may pain us all that some of these cameras are ending up in display cabinets it's not our money we are playing roulette with.

[LocalHero1953]

If this was mine and the vulcanite is not too far gone, I would patch it up for immediate security then put a half case on it to protect what's left, and hold it in place. Of course the case has to come off to change the film, but the vulcanite would not be subject to contact with sweaty hands, so at his from knocks in use.

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

so at his from knocks in use

nor at risk from knocks in use

Typo autocorrect🤷‍♂️

[Michal Kosakowski]

Am 22.11.2023 um 00:29 schrieb iamgroot40:

Hello,

 

I just got a dream camera of mine M2 Original BP 1005* Serial. I am not plaining on keeping on self I want to still use as what its made to do so. I had one side of the vulcanite flaking off should I send to try to repair and patch with other pieces plus what I have left of re skin hurt it that bad in terms of value? On the book note the rest seems to be great just change it was one corner started to crumble. 

 

 

Thanks again move to hear your guys thoughts, Austin 

Hi Austin,

I wouldn't replace the vulcanite with leather on a black paint M2. The value will suffer for sure! Every good Leica repair shop will take care of the fixing of the vulcanite.

Michal