Geotagging with Fotos

[scott kirkpatrick]

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Reading some recent good reports about Fotos ease of use, I set out with my new M11-P and an Apple tablet to see if it would give accurate fine-grained location updates.  I failed.  Suggestions gratefully accepted.

I connected (easily, nowadays) to the camera at my desk, and checked that a gps coordinate was transferred to an image.  The first bad sign was that after walking to another room in the house, I took another picture, and saw the same gps coordinates. So I went outside and took a walk around the block, shooting pictures.  I first checked that the tablet was connected to the camera and took another picture.  No change in the gps coordinates transmitted, there or as I walked around the block.

What am I doing wrong?  My tablet reflects every movement when I ask it to guide the navigation app on my car, sop the problem seems to be waking gps up on Fotos.  When I returned from my walk I checked the state of Fotos on the tablet and saw that all my shots were already downloaded, but still no change in the gps coordinates.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

[Cavu]

I’ve had the same experience with the M-11 and SL2. I had thought this problem occurred after the camera(s) went to sleep, but discovered the same coordinates before and after sleep. My next test will be to never let the camera(s) go to sleep and see what happens.

I’ve also reinstalled the Fotos app, re-paired the M-11 and SL2 but found that didn’t help either.

Unrelated to the above, I use VPN software on both my iPhone and iPad. Fotos will not connect with either iOS device until the VPN is disconnected. Not certain why that should be.

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[scott kirkpatrick]

I didn't let the cameera go to sleep, but Fotos  in my coat pocket most likey did go to sleep.  But since all the pictures were there on the tablet when I opened it, I think there was communication between the two.

I know there are people who get accurate location data through Fotos, and am hoping one of them will drop in.

 

[elmars]

Even if the M11 or M11-P gets its geodata from the iPhone, it is not as accurate - in terms of time and location. If I remember correctly, the camera is only accurate to within 10 to 15 meters, the iPhone is much more precise. I don't know what causes the differences. Leica does not comment on this even when asked.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've seen this sort of lag working with SL2 in the past, and observed that the camera simply doesn't ask for an updated position very often. I don't think it can wait until a picture is taken to ask for position, since that would slow processing of the picture.  Certainly my phone when running a car navigation app is checking position at least once a second. but that may mean that the app is asking for information every second...

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:35 AM, elmars said:

Even if the M11 or M11-P gets its geodata from the iPhone, it is not as accurate - in terms of time and location. If I remember correctly, the camera is only accurate to within 10 to 15 meters, the iPhone is much more precise. I don't know what causes the differences. Leica does not comment on this even when asked.

When I have checked Fotos navigation in the past, I noticed that the app reported one fewer decimal places in its lat and lon values than I saw in Google Maps.  That could reduce apparent resolution by a factor of 10.

[M11 for me]

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Am 10.11.2023 um 07:35 schrieb elmars:

only accurate to within 10 to 15 meters

This is my experience too. But the good news is that this is a big improvement compared to older firmware. As you state the iPhone is much more precise and the M11 should be able to use the full precision. That is my whish anyway.

[don daniel]

I don't know what Apple has to pay the American government to get meter-accurate information when using GPS. But Apple may not be prepared to simply pass this on to other users for free. When I use my Z9, I don't get a highly accurate location either via the iPhone or via the GPS module built into the Z9. The most precise positioning is probably reserved for the US military. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

4 hours ago, don daniel said:

I don't know what Apple has to pay the American government to get meter-accurate information when using GPS. But Apple may not be prepared to simply pass this on to other users for free. When I use my Z9, I don't get a highly accurate location either via the iPhone or via the GPS module built into the Z9. The most precise positioning is probably reserved for the US military. 

I am pretty sure that accuracy is up to the amount of money the receiver is willing to spend.  When I last worked on products (late 1990s), I put a gps receiver on top of our chimney in NY state and recorded its position for about 24 hours.  At that time, GPS came on two frequencies, and the higher frequency, military grade signal, was encrypted.  Our house moved about over a radius of roughly 200 feet during that day.  During the Clinton administration, the military agreed to remove the jitter degrading the consumer signal and decrypted the military signal so that all could receive it.  Airplane enroute navigation, for one example, is now almost completely free of ground-based references and depends on gps.  GPS signal degradation due to hostile interference remains a problem, however, in the middle East, the Ukraine, around Moscow, and wherever the military is training.  Pilots pay, not for gps accuracy, but for the warning notices  that they receive over their navigation systems' software.  The folks in the middle, Apple, Garmin, Boeing, etc., are not the ones who pay this charge and suffer this uncertainty.

Edited November 13, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

[Qwertynm]

Am 13.11.2023 um 11:17 schrieb don daniel:

I don't know what Apple has to pay the American government to get meter-accurate information when using GPS.

As stated above, GPS is free. I assume there is a software limitation to why Leica FOTOS doesn't write the full geo location into the exif of the dng. Maybe it's a limitation of a certain amount of bits allowed per entry? Just a wild guess from a non IT person. Accuracy comes down to different factors. How good is the antenna/receiver, how strong is the signal, are you in a forest or a desert, are other frequencies interfering with your gps signal and so on. Pin point accurate GPS doesn't even work sometimes for dedicated GPS navigation devices. I use Garmins Cycling computer often and have an entry level model and the top level model and the top level is consistently more accurate.

@scott kirkpatrick are you on the latest firmware and have you followed the instructions by Leica on how to set up geotagging? Have you allowed GPS location on your device running in the background? Is the connection between FOTOS and your camera stable while you walk around? It should work properly when set up correctly. I don't have a M11 but it works flawless on the Q3

[scott kirkpatrick]

I think I didn't follow all the steps required to get each piece of the chain doing its part in Geologging.  I'll go through that more carefully.  And a part of the problem is that Android phones don't get the same quality of Fotos software, but I have given up on Android Fotos as a result.

[florian.zahn]

Hi,

 

this thread is already some days old, but a little to add: you mentioned, that you used Apple Fotos app from Aplle Tablet. So I assume you used a iPad. Pay attention, that only the cellular iPad models also have the GPS receiver installed. If you dont have a iPad with cellular (3g/4g/lte/…) it will not work.

 

best regards,

Florian

[scott kirkpatrick]

Continuing this line of thought.  I use Apple tables bought with the celular chip capabiity since these do support GPS, even if there is no phone contract.  I've used several of these to run aviation navigation apps, s they do receive accurate GPS when set up to do so.

Edited January 28 by scott kirkpatrick