The F-word

[microview]

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Fujifilm that is. As old age encroaches I feel less inclined to go out with my M10R, simply because of its weight. I was thinking of the Fuji XT5 with an X 35mm lens – this would allow autofocus and circa 50mm FOV. Anyone out there who has a recent M and has tried/kept the lighter ASPC camera? If so, is the image quality a decent match for Leicas'?

[DrM]

I'm sure the IQ is okay, but it all depends on your use case, and the joy you get from using the camera's. Personally, I don't get a lot of joy out of using a full automatic camera, as I does not force me to think about my photography. But, if you want to reduce weight, sight support, e.g. AF, and 50mm equivalent, another camera might be a good alternative (Fuji, Ricoh, Leica CL come to mind). Go for it, and enjoy! 

Best

Marc

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[250swb]

It's a good idea. Unless you are a pixel peeper nobody is going to be able to differentiate between a Fuji and Leica print, and if you end up enjoying it and making better photographs with it pixel peeping becomes absurd anyway. Personally I don't much like Fuji files and if a combination of light weight and image quality is paramount for myself I'd go further and return to the Olympus/OM system. Yes I know it's 'only' m43, but image quality is about far more important things than counting pixels, and despite having digital Leica's and Nikon's I get very wistful about the images from my old Olympus.

[FrozenInTime]

@microview I parted with my SL2-S, CL 35/1.4 and 18-56 TL lenses ( kept the TL2 and 18 ).

The TL 35/1.4 produced some sharp and high contrast images on CL; I was most impressed with it for indoors use with single AF.

The lens was however horrible to use in C-AF on both the SL2-S and CL.

I wanted a modern camera and lens that I could operate single handed with back-button AF and for tracking C-AF : 

The XT-5 and 33/1.4 LM WR provided both.

The Leica with 35/1.4 is outclassed by the latest Fuji 33/1.4 with its linear motor and phase detect AF body.  The original 2012 Fuji 35/1.4 is not going to better Leica.

I still keep a Leica M system.

Edited October 10, 2023 by FrozenInTime

[microview]

2 hours ago, DrM said:

I'm sure the IQ is okay, but it all depends on your use case, and the joy you get from using the camera's. Personally, I don't get a lot of joy out of using a full automatic camera, as I does not force me to think about my photography. But, if you want to reduce weight, sight support, e.g. AF, and 50mm equivalent, another camera might be a good alternative (Fuji, Ricoh, Leica CL come to mind). Go for it, and enjoy! 

Best

Marc

Thanks! It's 70 years since I had my first camera: a Zeiss Ikonta which took square film shots. I still have the (empty) orange box now full of small prints. The camera that gave me most enjoyment was a Corfield Periflex, a 35mm film camera with lens mount to match Leica's thread. (When first issued German camera imports were not permitted.) UK top lens specialist Malcolm Taylor said the lenses were 'rubbish'. But I still have my 50mm, useful as a magnifier if you get a garden splinter in your hand... So, to get to your point, auto focus to me still seems a bloody miracle. I also have a Q2 now and get a lot of satisfaction from it. Shame Leica never really got the Q3 launch right (ie, current availability).

[JoshuaRothman]

I’ve used Fuji extensively. In my experience the image quality is “good enough” but not comparable to Leica. Looking back through my own archive, I can plainly see the place where the Fuji X images end and the Leica images begin. That’s not to say that the Fuji pictures are bad—not at all, they’re some of my favorites. But I’m glad I’m using Leica.

If weight’s an issue, I wonder if another route within Leica could work—a smaller M lens, a Q camera, or even (if you have the bucks) a black M11 instead of an M10-R.

[Ray Vonn]

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4 hours ago, microview said:

Fujifilm that is. As old age encroaches I feel less inclined to go out with my M10R, simply because of its weight. I was thinking of the Fuji XT5 with an X 35mm lens – this would allow autofocus and circa 50mm FOV. Anyone out there who has a recent M and has tried/kept the lighter ASPC camera? If so, is the image quality a decent match for Leicas'?

I sold all my Fuji gear as I thought there was too much overlap between them and rangefinder cameras (putting aside the obvious AF/ manual difference).  Still not sure I was right to do that and I do still think of their gear fondly.  This is subjective of course but IMO the camera you chose whether old or new is not as important as the lens decisions and in my experience, any version of the F1.4 16mm, 23mm and 35mm Fujinon primes provide a decent match.  I say decent match, they're actually extremely good, very enjoyable to use and produce super images. 

[Camaro5]

It's always good to have a second or third camera, especially a smaller one for casual times when you might need it.  I have a Sony RX100 VII pocket camera and while I don't use it a lot, it's come in handy.  The images are fine and I've done some nice prints with it.  

[dpitt]

6 hours ago, DrM said:

I'm sure the IQ is okay, but it all depends on your use case, and the joy you get from using the camera's. Personally, I don't get a lot of joy out of using a full automatic camera, as I does not force me to think about my photography. But, if you want to reduce weight, sight support, e.g. AF, and 50mm equivalent, another camera might be a good alternative (Fuji, Ricoh, Leica CL come to mind). Go for it, and enjoy! 

Best

Marc

+1

If compactness and lightweight is important, my trusted X2 is the best compromise for me. You can use it with AF, but also full MF and manual. Nearly all settings can be done with buttons on the body like with a digital M. And it is 'only' 16 MP and APS-C, but comes very close to the results of my M9 with a 35mm M lens. I suppose that even compared with the M10R IQ will be ok.

Having a viewfinder is importantfor me to enjoy it fully. So I often use it with the EVF 2. In some cases I even prefer a OVF like the Leica 36mm bright VF.

Recently I bought a TL2 in the hope to replace it. IQ is fine and with a compact lens like a 18 or 23 mm TL it is a contender. I also have a Voigtlander Color Skopar to make a neat package. But I still find myself reaching for the X2 when size and weight matter. The weight goes up from 400g for the X2 to around 700g for the TL2 and the X2 is really pocketable with the collapsed lens compared to the TL2. I guess that I will keep the TL2 but I am   holding on to the X2 for a while.

And if you wonder if I tried some MFT format camera's. I also have a Lumix Gx8 (20MP). It is neither here or there. IQ is ok, but I like the results and user experience of the Leica's much more. Compactness and weight do not come close to the Leica X2.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by dpitt

[Simone_DF]

You could consider a Ricoh GRIII (28mm) or GRIIIx (40mm). They are pocketable APS-C, sharp lens, great image quality. 

Or get a Sony A7CII and small lenses like the Sigmas, or use your M lenses on it. 

[WvE]

I'm looking for a second body (autofocus), next to my M10-P. I did consider the SL2-S which is beautifully built but too heavy and not really value for money in my view. I'll first wait for the Nikon Zf and see what that brings to the table.  

[charlesphoto99]

iPhone 15 or Pixel 8 Pro. Problem solved (esp if not printing). 

[wizard]

Am 10.10.2023 um 13:08 schrieb microview:

I feel less inclined to go out with my M10R, simply because of its weight. I was thinking of the Fuji XT5 with an X 35mm lens

Does a Fuji XT5 with an X 35mm lens really weigh significantly less than your M10R with an equivalent lens? I wouldn't think so, but may be wrong of course.

[erniethemilk]

I still shoot with my old Fujifilm X-Pro1 from time to time.  It can’t hold a candle compared to my M10-P but it’s fun to use from time to time…. A lot lighter as well in fairness.

[costa43]

I own Fuji cameras including the xt5 and they are great but it's a different shooting experience for me and not quite as rewarding for a daily carry/walkaround. 

On the image quality, you will not be disappointed with the xt5, it delivers lovely images. The m10r has it beat on the high ISO and dynamic range but on 90% of your images, you probably will not notice. You also have some cool film simulations to play with if that is your thing.  

Playing devils advocate here but why not consider a typ262 with a small 50 or if possible a black m11.

Edited October 11, 2023 by costa43

[microview]

I had the M262 twice: swapped for M10 first, then the M10R. Whilst I like the 'swipe' playback screen I probably enjoy the 10R less than I did the 262s. (GAS and all that, however...)

[hepcat]

14 hours ago, microview said:

I had the M262 twice: swapped for M10 first, then the M10R. Whilst I like the 'swipe' playback screen I probably enjoy the 10R less than I did the 262s. (GAS and all that, however...)

You're a couple of years older than I am, but not much.    I started shooting Leica M bodies in 1974.  I've used them off and on ever since... more on than off.   I have the muscle memory for them.  Focusing and operation is second nature and without thought.  They fit my hand and are just intutive.   I bought a Fuji X-Pro1 when they first came out.  It was the camera that drove me back to Leica with an M8 and M9 in the day.   Later on, I tried the X-T1 and enjoyed better success with it, but it wasn't intuitive.  I switched to Phase One for almost ten years and used some smaller P&S for a while.  And of course, still used a Leica M film body.  

To cut to the chase, I now have a Panasonic S1 to use with Leica R lenses when I want a large body and an S5 to use when a more diminutive camera body is appropriate, but neither of them is a Leica M body.   I bought an M10-P for my daily work.  The weight difference is really negligible and absolutely unimportant in comparison to the operation of the camera and it's ability to just get out of the way.   

Obviously you need to make your own choices, but when it comes down to what's important... it's having a camera that just gets out of the way and makes the images you want it to make.   Give some thought to what's really important.  If that's light weight and turning the exposure decisions over to to some programmer, then go for it.  If it's a competent tool that you don't have to think to use because you have the muscle memory already, then perhaps that Fuji is a less attractive option. 

[RexGig0]

I already have such a camera. Before I added the M system, I bought Nikon Coolpix A cameras, to shoot when my Nikon DSLR cameras might be too heavy or bulky. After a flood ruined my first one, I bought two replacements. This is a capable little camera, with a serious APS-C sensor, and an 18.5mm lens for a ~27/28mm “equivalent” field of view. It competed with the Ricoh GR-series digital cameras, and, well, more buyers preferred the Ricoh. The Nikon was a better fit, in my hand, than the Ricoh, and I was already familiar with handling Nikon image files. Fortunately, Nikon still manufactures batteries, as it is a size still common with other camera models that are current.

I have almost reached age 62, so, I hope it will be some time before an M camera becomes too heavy, but, a reason I added the Leica M system more than five years ago, in early 2018, was because I had injured my left shoulder, and it remained uncertain when or if I would be able to resume hefting Nikon “super telephoto” lenses. The money that would have funded a long-planned 600/4 or 400/2.8 was, instead, used to buy an M10 and a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens.

My left shoulder finally healed, thankfully, but I never bought either of the monstrously heavy super-telephoto lenses I had contemplated. No regrets!

An option to foregoing using an M camera, or any other favored camera, of any brand, is to let one’s hips carry the weight, when one is not actually shooting. This can be in the form of a “lumbar pack,” or a pouch worn on a true weight-bearing belt. The widely-marketed “fanny packs” and “bum bags” are not typically suited to carry much weight. I have upper back problems that make sling bags problematic, so, and well-acquainted with such options. Think Tank manufactures such items, for the photography accessory market, and I favor Hill People Gear Prairie Belt to carry even more-substantial loads.

 

[acalmplace]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:08 AM, microview said:

Anyone out there who has a recent M and has tried/kept the lighter ASPC camera? If so, is the image quality a decent match for Leicas'?

I moved from Fuji to Leica. As Joshua, I can tell in my library when the change occurred, so my first suggestion is to get some files from the X-T5 to see how you find them.

In my case, I moved to an M10-R, then to an M11 and enjoyed the lighter weight and easier battery handling, among other things. This might be another way to keep the weight to where you find it acceptable, while staying with one system.

Another important thing for me in switching was the purchase of small and light lenses, along bigger ones. This allows me to have a very portable camera when I need. I went with the 35 Skopar and the 50 Elmar-M for these cases.

Of course, the M doesn't do AF as well as the X, bit that is something I find myself not missing (you're moving in the other direction, so who knows how you will find the transition).

If weight is a clear concern, the the smaller Fuji bodies (eg, X-T30; X-E4) offer more tangible gains than an X-T5.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[benqui]

@microview I completely understand what you mean. I use a M10 and the Q2. Some months ago I bought a Nikon Zfc because I liked the design and the low weight especially for travels. For sure it has not the haptic of a Leica but the quality of the photos is amazing. I have to admit that especially for portrait shootings the AF of the Nikon is by far better as the AF from the Q2 (ok the Q2 is much older). For normal purpose you will not see any differences between your M10-R and your APSC camera (if you are not a pixel peeper)