M11-D?

[grahamc]

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1 hour ago, Stevejack said:

I agree, but perhaps that’s my mentality that the D is not a primary camera. 
As a replacement for a film camera, the 24mp digital files are plenty for what I need from them. I use it as a daily carry, snaps of the kids when we’re out and about, street shots etc… I tend to use the M11 or something else of I’m doing serious work. 

It’s not that the M10-d isn’t capable, I just have easier tools for the job so I use them. If I only had the D then I think I would appreciate more resolution but otherwise would make do. 

Yes I’m hearing you, for the types of shooting I think a higher resolution sensor is best suited to I would personally value image preview or at least image review.   For everything else (particularly street / documentary) the 10-P doesn’t feel lacking at all. Quite the opposite in fact, I find it perfect for my needs 

[IkarusJohn]

So, an M11-D would still have a live sensor for exposure and an optical rangefinder?

Talk me through that?

[costa43]

10 hours ago, Warton said:

M11 is not ready for D version yet because this camera both M11 and M11-P models are still being plagued by frozen.

With D version, you wouldn’t even know the camera freezes when it freezes. You just keep pressing shutter and then you are frustrated why you didn’t hear that horrible stapler like shutter sound. Or even worse you elude yourself to believe it’s electronic shutter mode now.

 

 

That is a scary thought but a valid one listening to all the software (or possibly hardware) issues that have been experienced to date. The D range is about total simplicity for me and a 60mp camera with no screen has little appeal for my needs. The good news is that I’ve already seen a few m10d models being put up for sale and I’m sure the price will come down too in the coming months.

[evikne]

I'm leaning more and more towards wanting an M10-D. But first I want to see how the M11-D turns out.

[grahamc]

Finally some good buying conditions for 10-D after 2-3 years of scarcity and holding price levels . (Edit: Hopefully!)

I'm hoping for anyone buying they may be just over 50% of the cost of an 11-D, which would be amazing buying for what you get. 

Edited March 24, 2024 by grahamc

[fenykepesz]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb grahamc:

...to urge newcomers to the D line to try pick up an M10-D at a reasonable price from “upgraders”.  

you know, this thing with the "good buying/selling conditions" is a double-sided sword, at least for those "uggraders" as in my case.  i am trying to finance a new 'D' with the sale of my much loved m10d, not an easy task for a pale researcher salary in weak CA$, especially if the m11d is rumored to go for a whooping €9500...

[charlesphoto99]

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If anyone wants an M11-D right away, I'd be happy to sell you some 3" pieces of black photo tape (and at only $100, a third of what Leica would charge). 

[f8low]

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the meetings when they discussed adding the advance lever to the M-10D! Plenty of pros, plenty of cons...

[evikne]

24 minutes ago, f8low said:

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the meetings when they discussed adding the advance lever to the M-10D! Plenty of pros, plenty of cons...

And probably just as heated discussions now if they've removed it again.

Edited March 24, 2024 by evikne

[evikne]

9 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Is it just me noticing member @gigithephotographer being deleted for leaking information?

Oh no, not again! 🙀

[grahamc]

7 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

you know, this thing with the "good buying/selling conditions" is a double-sided sword, at least for those "uggraders" as in my case.  i am trying to finance a new 'D' with the sale of my much loved m10d, not an easy task for a pale researcher salary in weak CA$, especially if the m11d is rumored to go for a whooping €9500...

All our use cases & preferences are different so without being insensitive to upgraders all I’m really saying is I wouldn’t consider making this change.  My decision wasn’t financially driven by (I had GAS and budget for a 11 generation model but when I loaned one I much preferred the m10 images).  
 

But looking at the finances it makes it even clearer for me…. Here, a Leica 11-P (body-only) costs just 15% less than the extraordinary Hasselblad X2D with a lens.  So the prices are not only becoming out of reach for many, they are also beginning to represent pretty poor value when we take a look at the topics of first page of the M-11 forum.  They have been majority posts of issues, for over 2 years now  

 

 

Edited March 24, 2024 by grahamc

[pippy]

4 hours ago, f8low said:

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in the meetings when they discussed adding the advance lever to the M-10D! Plenty of pros, plenty of cons...

Apparently that was insignificant in comparison to the very heated discussions regarding abandoning the removeable base-plate feature ("Since 1924") for the M11 release! Hopefully Leica have learned from the outfall of their breathtaking stupidity with this decision and we will be blessed with a return to 'How It Was Ordained in Perpetuity'...

Philip.

Edited March 24, 2024 by pippy

[T25UFO]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Is it just me noticing member @gigithephotographer being deleted for leaking information?

That’s a good spot.  I hadn’t noticed.  Could gigi be the latest incarnation of he who cannot be named?

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, T25UFO said:

That’s a good spot.  I hadn’t noticed.  Could gigi be the latest incarnation of he who cannot be named?

Convincing if so.  I had assumed GIGI was a photographically-inclined member of the Italian aristocracy.   

Their comments have been deleted.   The plot of ThumbrestGate thickens !     
 

[f8low]

16 hours ago, evikne said:

And probably just as heated discussions now if they've removed it again.

Totally! Well... unless they collected some evidence from shipping one -D wo/ lever and one -D w/ lever... 

12 hours ago, pippy said:

Apparently that was insignificant in comparison to the very heated discussions regarding abandoning the removeable base-plate feature ("Since 1924") for the M11 release! Hopefully Leica have learned from the outfall of their breathtaking stupidity with this decision and we will be blessed with a return to 'How It Was Ordained in Perpetuity'...

Philip.

That's a good analogy though, I've never thought about it. I am not very familiar with digital M but the base plate on a digital camera certainly creates some analog flair...

One catch with all these 'analog flair' arguments is though that it might only spark something for people who've used analog cameras before... Not sure how Leica characterizes the different types of -D customers and how they estimate their share... I can definitely see someone with an analog M history to be tempted. However, there might also be a few without that history - even coming from different camera systems - who simply feel like shaking up their digital shooting experience...  

[Robert Blanko]

An M1x-D without baseplate and advance lever / thumb rest would be a sacrilege.

[Smudgerer]

On 3/24/2024 at 2:37 AM, grahamc said:

Yes I’m hearing you, for the types of shooting I think a higher resolution sensor is best suited to I would personally value image preview or at least image review.   For everything else (particularly street / documentary) the 10-P doesn’t feel lacking at all. Quite the opposite in fact, I find it perfect for my needs 

Could be wrong here as although I have a M10-D I never did buy a Visoflex 020 which I think worked on the "D"..........If so then you should / would have had image preview through the Viso' and perhaps image review too.........Am I right or wrong?

[grahamc]

2 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Could be wrong here as although I have a M10-D I never did buy a Visoflex 020 which I think worked on the "D"..........If so then you should / would have had image preview through the Viso' and perhaps image review too.........Am I right or wrong?

It’s a good point and you are correct there is that option available although I never really seriously considered it. I think the image review is only for the most recent image taken.  I don’t really need it for the things I think 10-D is best suited for and I always thought it would be a bit clunky.
 

If going to a higher MP version I probably would as I’d probably want to use those MP for different types of photography where framing & exposure is more critical. 

Edited March 25, 2024 by grahamc

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:04 AM, pippy said:

Apparently that was insignificant in comparison to the very heated discussions regarding abandoning the removeable base-plate feature ("Since 1924") for the M11 release! Hopefully Leica have learned from the outfall of their breathtaking stupidity with this decision and we will be blessed with a return to 'How It Was Ordained in Perpetuity'...

Philip.

I most certainly would have argued for the retention of the base plate, strongly. And I was wrong. Very wrong.

Gordon

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[pippy]

33 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I most certainly would have argued for the retention of the base plate, strongly. And I was wrong. Very wrong.

😸

I do very much love the historical aspect (100 years! : 1924 - 2024) of the removeable baseplate feature - whether for 'Barnacks', Film M's or Digi-M's - but just 12 hours ago, in response to Borna's 'What if Leica Made a New M?' thread (posted in the film sub-forum) and the question therein asking "What kind of features would you like to see?", my response was this;

"Much as I like the removeable baseplate I don't think anyone would argue against a hinged back being, in practice, a far better system. If a removeable baseplate is a superior idea then why does no other camera manufacturer employ this method nowadays?"

In truth I was merely suggesting one change which would make a Leica-M film camera more practical in use. Personally, however, I would fight tooth-and-nail to retain the archaic design and Practicallity Be Damned!......😸......

Philip.

Edited March 25, 2024 by pippy