Which system is better for normal and tele M lenses for critical focus? Nikon ZF, Sony E-mount or Leica SL.

[autograph]

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I'have been using Leica M system for 6 years. I have my trusty M240 and 28 summicron, 50 Summilux asph, 35mm color skopar and 21mm biogon lenses. I also have Leica silver Q and digilux2.

 

For wide angle I love to use zone focus on M and Q cameras for street shooting. No problem at all.  

And I use 50 summilux for portraits generally wide-open. On M240 critical focus is problematic and slow when using on street shooting. 

 

I'd like to use 50 lux with a mirrorless system. I have three viable options.

1- Nikon ZF (Very nice camera with vintage looking, Z8 AF, 8 stop ibis, 2.000 price tag) + Techart TZM-02, looking very promising

 

2- Sony Alpha camera + Techart LM-EA9

3- Leica SL camera (manual and focus peak)

 

 

What would you choose in my case?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by autograph

[JohnathanLovm]

My personal choice is SL601 for vintage lenses user friendly and slightly sharper image. But if you wish for autofocus adapter, I recommend the new Nikon ZF. It’s look nice for vintage lens.

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[jaapv]

Forget about focus peaking. Magnification is the way to go. 

[BLeventhal]

I'm a Nikon shooter who as a Leica... not the other way around. The Leica SL is a joy to use because of its elegant and simple design, but it looks like the new Nikon ZF is going to be a real winner for manual focus lenses. As will the SL, you have access to magnified focusing and focus peaking, but Nikon added a cool new feature. Specifically, you get subject recognition at the point of focus. So if you are going to compose a face off-center, the focus system (even in manual focus) will prioritize that face. In essence, it is using the smart AF tech to bias correct manual focusing... this seems like a real benefit to those who like to adapt their MF lenses. In addition, you get IBIS which is only available in the Leica SL2 and SL2s.

 

cheers, bruce

[Lelmer]

Using Leica M and Nikon myself, I'd vote for the Nikon Z, especially with the new Techart adapter which looks very promising.

[autograph]

Thank you my friends for your replies.

Nikon ZF and 2nd gen Techart adapter look very promising. I will try them and share the results. 

[jankap]

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I would be interested to hear your opinion about the Techart. I am skeptical regarding the velocity. 

Moving a complete lens against moving some of the lens elements inside, a native lens, of course.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by jankap

[Photoworks]

There are a few considerations to keep in mind:

1. Nikon and Sony cameras have different microlenses systems on the sensor. This can affect your image quality at the Border/ corners of the images, especially 28, 21mm lenses.
some people replace the sensor glass with a thin version, and from my test, there are color shifts in the capture and every image needs to be adjusted. 

2. If you are using the 50mm for portrait, you. can use EYE af on Nikon and Sony, and if you shoot wide open you will not notice the corner smear.

3. FLE lenses perform best in their range of distance. If you set the lens to infinity and the adapter focus your 2 meter subject, you may not have optimal performance of the lens. Of course, you can set the lens in the range of 2-3 m and let the AF adapter do the rest.

4. Wide angle lens correction is not available on other camera brands in camera. you can do some in post, but not all..

5. SL2 has the best results with adapted lenses from many brands. The benefit of making M lenses perform the same on SL cameras makes it beneficial for adapting Nikon and canon lenses on SL2. I have tested with a few systems and the results are consistently better on SL.

6. SL2 viewfinder is better than most other cameras, I found it easy to focus with M lenses wide-open without even zooming in.

7. it is worth experimenting anyway, it is fun, and some of the results can be great.

[autograph]

Since I will use primarily for 50mm, micronlens difference will be less problematic.

There are few limitations such as off center AF sensors does not work properly.

I could not find any knowledge about the possible limitations about the focus distance. Any data about the minimal focus distance?

Since SL cameras does not support AF and modern looking cameras, I'm prone to try ZF.

[PavelS]

I have been using Sony A7 IV with second generation Techart adapter but sold the adapter after few weeks of using it. Some years ago I had Sony A7 III with first generation Techart and have enjoyed it more and longer. Not sure if it worked better or (possibly) my tolerance to its faults was bigger. 

The issue is that the adapter does not work consistently. I do not mean just the focus accuracy but more the responsiveness (or lack of). Few times it just stopped respond at all and I have to remove the battery. I have not enjoyed it. 

I the meantime I acquired the original SL to complement my Sony to use it with manual focus lenses and within a month I replaced the A7IV with SL2-S (keeping the SL for manual focus lenses).

Techart on Nikon Z is maybe working better than the Sony version but Nikon still does not have the user interface of Leica. If you having Q and M cameras already, personally I think the SL would make more sense from user perspective (not to mention the colors which are not same on Leica models but "in the same direction" compared to Nikon system).

[jankap]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb autograph:

I could not find any knowledge about the possible limitations about the focus distance. Any data about the minimal focus distance?

Since SL cameras does not support AF and modern looking cameras, I'm prone to try ZF.

I found this review.

https://lensfever.com/techart-tzm-02-leica-m-to-nikon-z-autofocus-adapter-rolling-review/#focus-distance

[MFT-Lehrling]

Which summilux 50 do you use? the ASPH Version?

in my opinion the biggets problem with the cheap nikons (z6/7/ZF) and sonys (A7III/A7IV) ist the EVF. The SL2/S has realy good one, you can magnify and use peaking to your liking, even with challenging lenses with F1/F0.95, you can nail portrait shots. Also the adapter comes in handy for exifs and auto-ibis.

Like posted above, the Sensor stack and moving the lens, can get a problem if you are using lenses with floating elements lenses or wide angle. (the 50 1.4 asph has a floating element)

The Techart is realy good on the latest sonys (since A7IV), regarding finding focus. But the Quality of the images is not that great with M-Lenses, besides the shitty evf and handling. If Speed is your main concern, i would go to sony. If handling and quality is, Leica SL2S. Nikon has many other great reasons (great native F1.8 Prime set), but the MF for leica Lenses ist not one... at least not for the ones with bad EVF (Z6/Z7/ZF).

Regarding your question of minimal focus distance: You can get below 0.7m. (just set the focus on 0,7m, the adapter will move the lense from the sensor, greating a higher magnification rate) but in my experience there is only the apo-m 50 that is good here. (regarding 50mm Lenses) The summilux is rubish wide open, using anything closer than 0,7m. Also the effect is greater, the wider the lens is. (e.g. 24mm gets a better minimum focus distance than 50mm)

Edited September 25, 2023 by MFT-Lehrling

[LBJ2]

22 hours ago, autograph said:

I'have been using Leica M system for 6 years. I have my trusty M240 and 28 summicron, 50 Summilux asph, 35mm color skopar and 21mm biogon lenses. I also have Leica silver Q and digilux2.

 

For wide angle I love to use zone focus on M and Q cameras for street shooting. No problem at all.  

And I use 50 summilux for portraits generally wide-open. On M240 critical focus is problematic and slow when using on street shooting. 

 

I'd like to use 50 lux with a mirrorless system. I have three viable options.

1- Nikon ZF (Very nice camera with vintage looking, Z8 AF, 8 stop ibis, 2.000 price tag) + Techart TZM-02, looking very promising

 

2- Sony Alpha camera + Techart LM-EA9

3- Leica SL camera (manual and focus peak)

 

 

What would you choose in my case?

 

 

 

 

From first hand, long term Sony mirrorless experience, the SL2/SL2-S is second best FF camera platform for Leica M lenses. Leica engineers have made sure of that 😉 Then again the promise of an AF adapter can be very alluring. 

I shot the Techart AF adapter with Sony mirrorless with Leica M 35/50 lenses since the very first Techart AF adapter--it can be fun, amazing really, but can also be inconsistent and very frustrating when it decides to stop working or auto white balance goes a bit wonky, but you can flip over to MF mode to save our @$$ when needed. So I ended up buying a real adapter for my M lenses, the M10. I applied some elbow grease to learn how to use my first rangefinder to focus, "It's a wonderful life" since. I do enjoy adapting M lenses to the SL2 as well. M and SL2 is a great pairing of cameras IMO. *The size of the SL2 compared to Sony and M cameras has all been forgotten after the first few outings and I find the SL2 very comfortable, easy to work with overall in both AF and MF. Also, and FWIW, the 9.4 million dots, 0.90x, EVF on Sony A1, A7sIII, A7rV cameras is great for punching in to the very finest details for MF. 

Regardless, I think 50mm FL and longer can be considered generally safe for adapting to Sony and Nikon stock mirrorless cameras. *I believe all of my Leica M lenses are "made for digital" older character M lenses might be problematic to some extent. 

I've not shot with the newest Techart for Sony + M or the Nikon + M Techart. But have kept up with user comments. I've never owned any Nikon camera, but the new ZF is very appealing to me too for a casual shooting experience with some chops when needed, also only 24MPs so maybe the appearance of even more forgiving for some adapted M lenses. Certainly worth a try and probably a lot of fun to try-out. On another note, I think the ZF will sell very well at least to existing Nikon customer base and probably bring in some new customers that enjoy owning more than one camera brand. 

[BernardC]

23 hours ago, autograph said:

I'have been using Leica M system for 6 years. I have my trusty M240 and 28 summicron, 50 Summilux asph, 35mm color skopar and 21mm biogon lenses. I also have Leica silver Q and digilux2.

I understand the appeal of having an AF adapter for M lenses, but I still have a few concerns.

First, the adapter won't provide AF performance similar to native AF lenses. You'll be going back a decade or two in terms of speed and convenience. That's unavoidable, since AF lenses are designed to have focusing groups with low mass and minimal movement. M lenses are much heavier (because you need to move the whole lens instead of a just a small focusing group), and they need to be moved more.

Second, you are obviously quite familiar and comfortable with Leica's system and interface. Adding a second system means learning a completely different UI. It also means that you brain needs to switch modes when you switch cameras. That might not be an issue for you, but it is for me. You also need a new processing workflow, but that happens off-line so it's less critical. Still, you might have a hard time colour-matching shots taken with different systems.

Keep in mind that these are just personal concerns. They might be show-stoppers for me, but nothing more than small inconveniences to you. Also note that I personally dislike AF's constant second-guessing of my artistic intent. I would much rather focus quickly and assertively by eye, using the excellent SL/SL2 EFV, rather than having to coax a computer into pick the right focus point for my composition.

[intangiblethings]

Sorry to revive and old thread, but did anybody end up getting the Zf + Techart TZM-02? 

[adrianh]

On 1/26/2024 at 3:59 PM, intangiblethings said:

Sorry to revive and old thread, but did anybody end up getting the Zf + Techart TZM-02? 

I had it for a short time (on a ZF), and I tested also the Sony version on my A7RV. Both were so unreliable that I decided to stick with a manual adapter. Having AF on M-Lenses might sound tempting, but if the adapter hunts a lot or misses focus than you are way better served with a manual adapter for a tenth of the price.  The ZF has eye detect even in manual focus which helps a lot, the Sony on the other hand has that sensational EVF; I agree with @jaapv that magnification is the way to go. And this is way more accurate with a good EVF. The one in the A7RV is sublime, nothing can beat it in the FF sector. 

Edited January 28 by adrianh

[SrMi]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:30 AM, jaapv said:

Forget about focus peaking. Magnification is the way to go. 

Focus peaking at magnified view is the best :).

[jaapv]

Yes, that works too. However, be aware that focus peaking is like DOF, indicating the zone of maximum contrast. You should always twiddle a bit to find the middle. In fact, with magnification your eye is more convenient and precise

[intangiblethings]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:20 AM, adrianh said:

I had it for a short time (on a ZF), and I tested also the Sony version on my A7RV. Both were so unreliable that I decided to stick with a manual adapter. Having AF on M-Lenses might sound tempting, but if the adapter hunts a lot or misses focus than you are way better served with a manual adapter for a tenth of the price.  The ZF has eye detect even in manual focus which helps a lot, the Sony on the other hand has that sensational EVF; I agree with @jaapv that magnification is the way to go. And this is way more accurate with a good EVF. The one in the A7RV is sublime, nothing can beat it in the FF sector. 

Thanks! I did mull around the idea of selling my M10-P and going towards the Zf. I'd both save money and hopefully get a better, no stress shooting experience (I have other digital/film M bodies I'd keep). A recently ruptured Achilles x young children made me wonder if going a MF meets AF route would be a better option for family shots.  

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[hansvons]

6 hours ago, intangiblethings said:

A recently ruptured Achilles x young children made me wonder if going a MF meets AF route would be a better option for family shots.  

When children aren't toddlers anymore, photographing them often turns into wildlife and sports photography. That's where AF shines. I'd do exactly what you are planning. However, I'd keep the M10-P, as it's probably the most attractive M and sell something else. Get well soon!