Sharpest wide Opened? - 50 summicron (non APO) vs 50 summilux (latest versions of both)

[bourne]

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I am in the market for either the 50/2 non-apo summicron or the 50/1.4 summilux.  It was suggested to me that the cron is generally sharper than the summilux, particularly wide open?  Thoughts and experiences?????

Thank you...

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[FrozenInTime]

50mm Apo-Lanthar 😉

[Sandokan]

The 50 Summilux Aspherical is probably sharper than the 50 Summicron, but the 50 Summilux pre-aspherical has (imho and for my tastes) a softer more pleasing bokeh. Sharpest of all is the 50 Apo Summicron, but the Voigtländer Apo Lanthar mentioned above is supposedly as sharp (but I have never used one). 

[Photoworks]

you should keep in mind that the design of the Summilux lenses is made to have a little glow and smoothest bokeh at 1.4, and when you close down to f2-2.8 they are sharp.
It is like 2 lenses in one.

the Summicrons are more forgiving as the design allows from more DOF at the same f-stop.

I like the look of the Summilux at 1.4. If you prepare sharp lenses the Summicron is probably better for you, the APO version is crazy sharp.

The Summicron 50 M does flare when shooting into the sun, or when there is a light off the frame, I have never seen it with Summilux

[Kwesi]

Between the 50/2 v5 and the 50/1.4 ASPH, v2. The Summilux wins hands down. 
if you don’t care about the close focus capabilities of the v2, pick up the 50/1.4 ASPH v1 and save yourself a decent chunk of cash for virtually the same performance. 

[tedd]

I went from v5 Cron to Lux ASPH. I don't pixel peep, but I feel wide open the Cron is sharper across the frame than the Lux, though this could also be my inability to focus and reframe properly wide open with the Lux (due to shallower DoF). Once you stop the Lux down to f2 I'm not sure you'd notice anymore though, and wide open the Lux is a vibe.

The Lux is also more predictable (the v5 can have beautiful or ugly bokeh, depending on its mood), is much less prone to flare, and a lot more pop to the images. The Cron has a bit of old school romanticism that I sometimes miss and a nicer form factor, though I felt more prone to focus shift. 

I could live with either and be happy.

[lct]

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As far as my lenses are concerned (Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1, Summilux 50/1.4 v3, Summicron 50/2 apo, Summicron 50/2 v4 & v5):
• f/1.4 vs f/2: apple vs orange, DoF is too different.
• f/1.4 vs f/1.4: the sharper is the 50/1.4 asph.
• f/2 vs f/2: the sharper is the 50/2 apo, followed by 50/1.4 asph and 50/2 v4 or v5. The 50/1.4 v3 is at the same level as the latter at the centre of the frame but is softer at edges and corners.

[jakontil]

I have the lux 50 asph V1 and the apo cron, both are sharp wide open, but apo wins edge to edge performance

in the middle? It’s hard to say as lux at 1.4 have shallower DOF and it’s quite sharp for its purposes in my case, a portrait lens.. and apo cron for more like less dreamy usage, and probably weird but i prefer the apo for my BW digital and film works 

[tedd]

Thread title and first post clearly state that they are looking at the non-APO Cron, not the APO. I think it probably goes without saying that the APO is the sharpest..

[Al Brown]

They cannot be compared wide open as they have different widest f-stops. It is dumb to do it this way.

Compare both at f/2 and they should be more or less a tie - with the added benefit of 50 lux being also able to do f/1.4, not to mention the amazing and incredibly unique render of this lens wide open. So to put it in other words, the latest 50 lux has all the advantages of the 50 cron (minus the size) PLUS it is ASPH *AND* it is also secretly an APO lens (the latter is confirmed but not written on the specs).
I would not change my 50 lux for a 50 cron, not even the APO cron.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Al Brown

[lct]

Re 50/1.4 asph vs 50/2 v4 or v5. Karpe vs Mandler, not the same character IMHO. As much as i like it on detailed subject matters, i never use my 50/1.4 asph for portraits that i find too harsh with it. Same for 50/2 apo but 50/2 v4 and v5 have all the gentleness i need at f/2. YMMV.

[rustyrus]

So sharpness is your only criteria?

Get the Voigt APO and save some money. Or better yet, just go buy the new Sony 50 1.4 GM with a cheaper body and save even more money.

Seriously though sharpness would be last on my list between these two lenses. They are both sharp enough for anything you want to shoot period. 

 

Size an issue?

Price?

1.4 vs f/2?

MFD?

Filter size?

Rendering?

Focus on what actually matters here is my opinion. 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by rustyrus

[Rick in CO]

Google "Comparing Rangefinder and SLR 50mm Lenses. (Version 0.7)" by Roger Cicala at LensRentals.com.

Its from 2014, but likely still valid.

[RexGig0]

The Summilux was not designed to be as sharp at f/1.4 as the Summicron at f/2. Both get sharper as they are stopped-down, becoming equivalently-sharp. I may switch to a Summicron if I know that I am not going to be needing to shoot in low light, or not needing/wanting the Summilux’ “character” in the images, if I want a smaller lens, for the day, or if I want to use a detachable hood, in anticipation of bumps and abrasions. I favor the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, for its character, wide-open. Both are sharp enough. I have not done a side-my-side comparison test shoot, because that is tedious, and, both are sharp enough.

As already stated in post #10, by Al Brown, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is “an APO lens,” but not branded as such. The designed, Peter Karbe, has confirmed this. 

Other replies have mentioned the Cosina Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar, a VERY sharp lens. I added one, recently, for its supreme flare resistance, more than its sharpness, but, yes, indeed, it is very, very sharp. I will be keeping my Leica 50mm lenses, because flare can be used creatively, but, sometimes, I may want no flare, whatsoever. I have seen on-line comparisons that show the Voitlander 50 APO Lanthar to be more flare-resistant the Leica’s 50 APO.

I would rarely, if ever use Leica M equipment in the “citizen scientist” role, but, if I were to do so, in conditions that could cause flare, the Voigtlander 50 APO Lanthar would be the easy choice. The sunlight can be harsh, in this oft-hazy part of Texas. (In actual practice, a Nikon Micro-Nikkor AF-S 60mm would be my “normal” focal length, for such documentary shooting, because I can shoot from mere inches away, for a 1:1 magnification ratio, or at infinity, with good results. My wife is a dedicated Nikon shooter, and a Texas Master Naturalist, so, we will not be quitting Nikon, or DSLR usage. Our images could be used for official/scientific/educational purposes.)

Edited August 28, 2023 by RexGig0

[Lelmer]

23 hours ago, bourne said:

I am in the market for either the 50/2 non-apo summicron or the 50/1.4 summilux.  It was suggested to me that the cron is generally sharper than the summilux, particularly wide open?  Thoughts and experiences?????

Thank you...

Both lenses are excellent, with a different rendering. With regards to sharpness only, don't worry, you won't see any difference in most cases.

[Huss]

4 hours ago, Rick in CO said:

Google "Comparing Rangefinder and SLR 50mm Lenses. (Version 0.7)" by Roger Cicala at LensRentals.com.

Its from 2014, but likely still valid.

The problem is they input obviously incorrect data for the 50 Cron - at all apertures tested it shows identical results center, mid, edge.  

I have both the 50 Cron v5 and the Lux Asph, and unless I need 1.4 I just find the Cron so much more enjoyable to use.  The focus throw is lighter and shorter/quicker so it is very rapid to use.  And just feels perfect.  Both lenses are amazing optically (apart from both sucking at flare resistance) and you can (and should) rent both before making a purchase.  Or go to your local Leica Store - there is one in Boston - to try both out.

[Darrell]

I traded in my 50mm cron v5 for the 50mm lux Asph v1 and believe me, the lux is sharper and a lot less likely to flare. Flare was my only real complaint with the 50mm v5, it seemed sharp but the lux turned out to be sharper.

[Al Brown]

5 hours ago, comptroller said:

I’ve owned the APO-Lanthar and the v5 Summicron that I have now. 

I’d love to help you but I never shoot anything wide open. And if I did it would be the last thing for me to check for sharpness. Wide open. 

If you have to have the sharpest results from wide open to f16 then get an APO lens or a very corrected expensive lens and have fun at 800% zoom!

I can tell you that Mandler didn’t design lenses to perform this way so forget any Mandler lens. 

He is asking about an APO lens he is considering, the 50 Summilux ASPH. Your contribution to this thread OTOH is 0.0%
 

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[Huss]

my 2 yr old 50 Cron v5 flares very easily.  As have others I have tried.  As does my 50 Lux Asph.

Taken two days ago w my Cron v5

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[Huss]

1 hour ago, comptroller said:

This photo actually looks better with the flare.

 

You saw a version w/o the flare?

Bottom line - these lenses suck re flare control. I have them , I use them, they flare badly. The coatings on my CV and ZM lenses do a much better job than on my Leica lenses.  The one Leica lens I had that was great w flare was the 28 Elmarit Asph.  I have not used the new Leica APO 50 and 35, but apparently those do really well with flare control.