How to use properly Spot Lighmeter as L-608 for Leica R6+Summicron 50mm E55

[CarlosCarriche]

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Hello Hello,

 

First of all, I am sorry if my English is not really good as I am Spanish and English is not my first language 🙂

I would like to apologize if my knowledge or terms are not the correect ones, I just hope you understand what I mean with my explanations.

 

I am trying to read as much as I can about how to work properly with a Spot Light Meter and I am getting a bit lost in the process hehe...

Could anybody explain to me or answer few questions that I have about how the SpotLight Meter really works (this case will be for Sekonic L 608).

Super Bright Light situation. High contrast, super high lights and super dark shadows, basically the whole ''spectrum'' of tones. Should I measure for the High Lights or for the shadows? My point or what I am looking for, is to show in the pictures this nice Pastel colors. This situation is mostly for Landscapes and Street/buildings photography. But I love to show this colors also for portraits in same light situation. SO... basically my point is to show in my pictures the level V (mid grey) as 1 or 2 stops overexposed in order to look for those pastel colors.

I saw already some people that use to measure a point in that midgrey shadows, and overexpose 1 or 2 stops. But I am finding so difficult to find that midgrey tones 😬

Please, advise with some tricks or something a bit easier that you might have with more experience than me.

 

Thank you all so so much

 

[jaapv]

High tones for slide film, mid-shadows for negative film. Adapt according to subject and direction/ light type 

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Fourth-Photographs-Camera-ebook/dp/B0104EOJSK/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=60164fca-a8c8-4584-a247-837e3db5585c

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[CarlosCarriche]

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Have you considered using the incident meter? That is generally a more accurate and consistent way to meter, assuming you are in the same light as the subject. Rather than you trying to guess what a middle grey is, it averages the light to a middle grey. I find this very accurate...accurate enough that I use it for metering 8x10 slide film, which is now absurdly expensive. With E6 film you can underexpose a third or half a stop if you want darker or more saturated colors. If you are shooting color negative, you will likely get better results overexposing about half to one full stop over box speed. If you must use a spot meter, I would suggest following Jaap's general advice. When people say "mid grey", it need not be actually grey, just the middle range of luminance (brightness). So you can point it at a mid tone blue or green etc. I assume you realize this, but I am saying it just to be clear, as some people think "middle grey" can only be a gray tone, when in reality it was chosen when most film was black and white. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Carlos,

Welcome to the Forum.

When you measure a portion of a scene with a narrow angle spot meter, or a reflected light meter covering a wider angle of view: The meter reading tells you the exposure combination of film speed, shutter speed & lens opening that will produce an image of what is measured at an exposure that measures as Zone V on the developed film. Whether it is a negative film or a slide/transparency/diapositive film.

As Jaap wrote above: It is generally better to expose negative films so that important shadow details are not underexposed while it is generally better to expose slide films so that highlight details are not overexposed. 

To learn to do this & other things: It might be a good idea to read about exposure techniques in the owner's manual for your camera. This is in the "WIKI" at the top of this & every page on the Forum. You might also read an old photography book, or more than 1, from the 1960's or 1970's. This was a time period before cameras made as many decisions about exposure, focus, etc. as later cameras did. Knowing how to figure exposure was more important then. And, light meters were common & many people used them. Also: You don't have to use a specialized book dealing with the "Zone System" in great detail to use a meter to measure Zone V and then to adjust exposure.

Please ask more questions here.

Could you put a photo that you have already taken here & tell us what it is in the photo that you have questions about. As well as what you like & what you don't like about the photo?

By the way, your English is fine.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited July 16, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[CarlosCarriche]

Thank you all so much for your replies. This helps me so much.

I have another question.

Is there any difference between overexposing by ''cheating'' my spotlightmeter saying that I am shooting with 200 when really I am shooting with 400, and by doing it manually with my camera by changing aperture or shutter speed?

 

[jaapv]

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No there is not. The main problem is forgetting to return the meter to its proper setting. 
I must add: you do need to master the theory as you are doing, but judging the light and light distribution is the most important part and that only comes with experience. If you want to practice as you must I would advise using a digital camera, not necessarily an expensive one, to avoid wasting expensive film and instant feedback. 
Read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_System

[Stuart Richardson]

Nope, no difference. ISO box speed is primarily a guideline, not a rule. This is less so for slide film, but color negative has a very wide exposure latitude, so you can shoot it at many different speeds and get different effects. Personally, I tend to stick to box speed for black and white, but I develop myself and process the film to come out how I like it. With color negative, I tend to expose Portra 400 at 200, but Portra 160 at 100. I agree with Jaap. I would stick with one film and one ISO setting and try to see how the metering affects your results. Slide film tends to teach you faster because it is clear immediately if your metering was off, but it is really expensive these days, so it may not be practical...the main thing is to be consistent and cut down on variables. That will make it easier. Another good option would be to build up your skills on a digital camera...certainly no one will hold it against you given how expensive film is these days.

[hepcat]

11 hours ago, CarlosCarriche said:

Thank you all so much for your replies. This helps me so much.

I have another question.

Is there any difference between overexposing by ''cheating'' my spotlightmeter saying that I am shooting with 200 when really I am shooting with 400, and by doing it manually with my camera by changing aperture or shutter speed?

 

Carlos, folks tend to think of metering and exposure in terms of absolutes.  "THIS scene requires THIS exposure," but "THIS exposure" is only one of many interpretations of the brightness range of the scene.   Very simply, your meter tells you how to expose the light value you point it at to be "middle" or 18% gray.   If you point the meter at black, it will tell you the exposure to make that black 18% gray, and if you point it at white, it will tell you how to expose that white as 18% gray.  That's all a meter does, literally.   Now, how the meter reads depends on your distance from your light source, the angle of view of the meter, and which light value(s) specifically you're pointing the meter at.

So...  what YOU determine is what light source YOU want to be represented as middle gray in the scene.  Then it's up to YOU to determine whether the ends of the spectrum, blacks and whites, block up or blow out... or are also exposed with detail and how much.  For that you need to understand the latitude of the film you're using.  Then you can slide your exposure toward one end or the other depending on where YOU want the detail to be... or if the scene will average out to adequately expose both the high and low tones as well as the middle.

So, all your meter does is tells you how to expose a particular light value for "middle gray."   The rest of the calculations you do on your own.  And that's the basis of the Zone System, which I highly recommend you understand and adopt. 

[nitroplait]

17 hours ago, CarlosCarriche said:

Hello Hello,

 

First of all, I am sorry if my English is not really good as I am Spanish and English is not my first language 🙂

I would like to apologize if my knowledge or terms are not the correect ones, I just hope you understand what I mean with my explanations.

 

I am trying to read as much as I can about how to work properly with a Spot Light Meter and I am getting a bit lost in the process hehe...

Could anybody explain to me or answer few questions that I have about how the SpotLight Meter really works (this case will be for Sekonic L 608).

Super Bright Light situation. High contrast, super high lights and super dark shadows, basically the whole ''spectrum'' of tones. Should I measure for the High Lights or for the shadows? My point or what I am looking for, is to show in the pictures this nice Pastel colors. This situation is mostly for Landscapes and Street/buildings photography. But I love to show this colors also for portraits in same light situation. SO... basically my point is to show in my pictures the level V (mid grey) as 1 or 2 stops overexposed in order to look for those pastel colors.

I saw already some people that use to measure a point in that midgrey shadows, and overexpose 1 or 2 stops. But I am finding so difficult to find that midgrey tones 

 

You are totally over thinking this. You don’t need that advanced spot meter for a camera that already has a competent meter build in.

Sell your meter and use the money on film - and try to over/under expose to see from actual experience what your preferences are.

An L 608 is totally overkill for anyone but a professional photographer who knows what they’re doing.

Edited July 16, 2023 by nitroplait

[TomB_tx]

You can watch the effects of spot metering different areas of a scene by getting a used Sony A7 camera and cheap adapter for your lenses. Set the camera to spot metering mode, aperture priority. As you pan the scene it shows you the spot being measured, and the VF scene brightness changes to show the effect real-time. I've used the A7 with my R lenses as an inexpensive digital solution for these lenses. In aperture-priority mode it's much like using a Leica R body - but digital. I started this long before Leica introduced the SL, and for my use haven't seen a good reason to switch.

[CarlosCarriche]

Thank you all again for your answers! 🙂

@nitroplait is not very nice to push or to demand from someone to do something when I never actually ask If I should use or not this Spot Light Meter. Same thing for the recommendation about how to spend my money. I dont want to be rude. But I never ask for opinions in this matter, just to clarify 🙂 Thanks anyway because your point of ''you are totally overthinking this'' is totally right. I will need to be patience, practice practice and practice and get closer to the story or what I want to say with my pictures

I am reading and studing the Zone System by Hansel Adams and love it.

I think I defenetly need for experience and try more films. Maybe in the future develop my own films to actually print them as I want, love this feeling.

@hepcat this is very very right. Thank you so much

 

[hepcat]

14 hours ago, CarlosCarriche said:

@hepcat this is very very right. Thank you so much

You're welcome.  I use a Sekonic L-558R meter myself, although not nearly as often as I ought to, probably... and that out of laziness.   And yes, if you want the very most out of film, since you're working so hard to understand and practice the fundamentals of exposure, my suggestion would to be to find a single emulsion you like, learn its properties, and develop it yourself the way YOU want it for the custom look YOU want it to have.   That gives you total control from the time you frame the image to it's final scanning or printing.   Learning the Zone System is probably the easiest and most effective way to make exposures the way YOU want them to be exposed.  There are few any more who are willing to go to the lengths you are to learn your craft.  This was once must-have knowledge for a photographer.  Automation has now made it "specialty" knowledge.   I applaud you. 

[bags27]

Welcome, Carlos!

This seems to be your end goal, what you are trying to achieve: what I am looking for, is to show in the pictures this nice Pastel colors.

Much as many of us love our spot meters, it's really not necessary, and, unless you really spend time in trial-and-error, may actually slow you from doing what you want. Ansel Adams helped invent the zone system. But that was after he spent many thousands of hours, not only shooting but in the dark room (where he was a master). If you're shooting black and white, the simplest thing is measure the shadows and put them in Zone 3 (maybe! for example, with Pan F+ I'm seeing better results with deep shadows in Zone 4). My point is that this is an on-going learning experience, deciding what you like and what film you're using.

But you're shooting color film and want a specific look.

Assuming you are shooting Portra (which is a great film and so very easy to use), here's a discussion on our board about getting that pastel look. But there are lots of discussions about this on the web. Just google for them. Maybe start by using a simpler meter (of say 40 degrees), or just average your shadows and highlights on your spot meter, and then over-expose by one stop. Have it developed normally. That should start you down the path toward more pastels.

 

And here's another discussion:

https://www.echevarria.io/blog/how-to-get-pastel-colors-in-photos/index.html

[davidmknoble]

@CarlosCarriche, welcome to the forum and glad you asked this question!

I use sekonic spot meters a lot for my photography.  You described very bright and very dark areas when you use the spot meter.  One way to use the spot meter is to use the averaging function (I think it is the button with triangle AVG).  That will give you an exposure in between both highlight and shadow.  But, you may find you loose both shadow and highlights if the range is too wide.

If you lose detail in both, then you have to choose which you want more and adjust your exposure.  Color film, especially Porta 160, is very forgiving in the highlights.  Also, the lower the ISO speed, the better the film tends to do with very bright and very dark.  If you want to be sure when shooting the film, take the first picture with average (from bright to dark), and then open up 1 f/stop to let in more light, to help expose more in the shadows.  You can try another one with 2 f/stops more (so +1 and +2).  

I have taken exposures early in the morning with Porta 160, using ISO 100 at the beach and had exposures of 1 min, 45 sec, 30 sec, 15 sec and 8 sec.  When they were developed and printed they were very close to being similar.  It was a sunrise at the beach with the moon still in the sky.  The 1 min and 45 sec exposures washed out the moon, but the remaining ones worked well.

So, shoot several always staring with the average and then modifying so you can see the effect when you develop. 

Love to see some of your images!

[Sandokan]

There are many videos on using a spotmeter and setting the exposure according the Zone System. I will not try to explain it here ... as I frequently get confused. 

Anyway, the people who are using the zone system are often large format photographers where the sheets can be developed individually to exactly suit the contrast of the scene. 

the basics is that the spot meter will tell you the setting to use to make the thing you metered on "grey". If you spot meter something dark like a black rock, the meter will tell you to give more exposure and your scene will be very light. If you meter something white, like snow, the meter will tell you to give less exposure and everything will be dark. In the case of snow, you will say to yourself that reading puts the white snow in zone 5, but I want it in zone 8 so I give 3 stops less exposure. 

This is why I use the incident light meter - for a whole roll of 36 exposures in different settings, they will all be OK. The incident meter uses the white dome over the sensor and reads the light coming in and will tell you "the correct" exposure but of course this may not be the exposure you want for your scene, for example a shot where everything is mostly in dark shadow. 

The 608 is a great meter which can also be used for flash. 

[davidmknoble]

I use the zone system with 35mm and only worry about really wide tonal ranges or very compressed and flat scenes.  The zone system allows a development where you can predict which light values will be which zones.

For example, I have calibrated Ilford F-Pan 50 to ISO 25 and 118% development and I get Zone I through X the way I expect.  Zone III is the area that is darkest with just a little detail still visible, and Zone VIII is similar for highlights (although Zone IX sometimes has detail as well).

So, I spot meter the shadows and the highlights and look at the difference in EV (I have the Sekonic set to show EV, which gives me a graph on the bottom of -7 to +7 EV).  If the shadow area shows 1/60 second at f/5.6, and I want that to be Zone III, I simple increase the shutter speed 2 stops (Zone IV, Zone V) from 1/60 to 1/125 to 1/250.  All I’m trying to do at this point is capture all the detail on the negative, when I print it (either by scanning or in a darkroom) I can adjust it more.

Average lighting can work and I’ve done that for a long time with incident meters, however, as soon as you get a scene with lots of highlights and few shadows, the incident meter can still through you off.

All this is just to say, you can use the Zone system with 35mm.  It is easier with 120mm where you get different film backs and 12-16 exposures per roll (say, Hasselblad), but it works in 35mm.