Q2/Q3 or Hasselblad X2D? Which do you choose?

[Googaliser]

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I feel bad admitting this - but I have sold all my Leica gear for the X2D system. In a nutshell - it is the camera I have waited 40 years for. I love M's, S's, Q's, Medium format. But each has always had multiple compromises. Weight, speed, work-flow, user-experience etc. For static subjects - it is what I have been waiting for. I used to shoot on a H3DII-50 (CCD) before moving across to the S system (S2, 007 and S3). The H3D was a headache in all but landscape or studio situations. But the images, the colours....  The S glass offset some of its own inherent limitations - which I hoped with each generation would improve - but the size of it was the real deal killer for me. To now have the Hassy medium format look, in a small package, with amazing glass and the best user interface I have ever seen on a camera is a game changer for me. I spent the weekend traveling - and just had the X2D and my iPad Pro M4 with me. What a combination - they play perfectly together. Being able to share images almost instantly (RAW) and seamlessly from the X2D to the Apple ecosystem is another game changer. I still love Leica (M&S) - but the game has moved on - and for some reason I can't quite explain - the SL line has never appealed. It will be interesting to see what the S4 looks like. If it looks and works like an X2D - I may be back. But until then - I am enjoying photography again with the Hassy X system.

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[SrMi]

13 hours ago, Googaliser said:

I feel bad admitting this - but I have sold all my Leica gear for the X2D system. In a nutshell - it is the camera I have waited 40 years for. I love M's, S's, Q's, Medium format. But each has always had multiple compromises. Weight, speed, work-flow, user-experience etc. For static subjects - it is what I have been waiting for. I used to shoot on a H3DII-50 (CCD) before moving across to the S system (S2, 007 and S3). The H3D was a headache in all but landscape or studio situations. But the images, the colours....  The S glass offset some of its own inherent limitations - which I hoped with each generation would improve - but the size of it was the real deal killer for me. To now have the Hassy medium format look, in a small package, with amazing glass and the best user interface I have ever seen on a camera is a game changer for me. I spent the weekend traveling - and just had the X2D and my iPad Pro M4 with me. What a combination - they play perfectly together. Being able to share images almost instantly (RAW) and seamlessly from the X2D to the Apple ecosystem is another game changer. I still love Leica (M&S) - but the game has moved on - and for some reason I can't quite explain - the SL line has never appealed. It will be interesting to see what the S4 looks like. If it looks and works like an X2D - I may be back. But until then - I am enjoying photography again with the Hassy X system.

The S has the OVF, and X2D's EVF is a pain to use in high-contrast scenes unless you turn off exposure simulation, which I do. Nonetheless, I use my X2D much more than the S3.

Hasselblad has four XCD lens lines: P (portable), V (versatile), E (Exclusive), and the rest. I wish  Leica would do the same without repackaging Sigma and Panasonic lenses. Unfortunately, Leica focuses only on the best optical quality without regard for size and dimensions (L and S mount).

[summarity]

14 hours ago, Googaliser said:

but I have sold all my Leica gear for the X2D system

I've got an X2D Explorer Edition coming my way sometime next week and if it delivers what I think it will for me, I'll likely also sell off my Leica gear. I love the Q (Q2 and Q3) and those may stay, but I found the SL3 so fundamentally uninspiring, I won't really miss it.

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, summarity said:

I've got an X2D Explorer Edition coming my way sometime next week and if it delivers what I think it will for me, I'll likely also sell off my Leica gear. I love the Q (Q2 and Q3) and those may stay, but I found the SL3 so fundamentally uninspiring, I won't really miss it.

I am constantly switching between SL3 and X2D and would have a hard time in picking one over the other as they are so different.

I miss LPC and live highlight clipping in X2D most.

[Googaliser]

19 minutes ago, summarity said:

I've got an X2D Explorer Edition coming my way sometime next week and if it delivers what I think it will for me, I'll likely also sell off my Leica gear. I love the Q (Q2 and Q3) and those may stay, but I found the SL3 so fundamentally uninspiring, I won't really miss it.

Wow - I didn't know there were limited editions - what a handsome camera. As long as your subjects are fairly static - I wager that you will love it, and it will definitely inspire.

[summarity]

Yes, I do mostly landscape, architecture, and minimalist stuff. I've always shot in AF-s, single point or MF on the Qs and have thoroughly enjoyed that. After much deliberation, I think the X2D is a better fit, not least because I can swap lenses if need be, but mostly because it's so singularly focused on the kind of slow, deliberate photography I enjoy.

[Googaliser]

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11 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I am constantly switching between SL3 and X2D and would have a hard time in picking one over the other as they are so different.

I miss LPC and live highlight clipping in X2D most.

I hear you - for the last few decades - I have ended-up collecting systems for this reason. Nikon and fast glass for sports. Canon and RED for video. M for low-key creative stuff. S when there was enough light. Q for grab and go. Aside from the obvious cost tied-up in all of this - it also made choosing the right camera on any particular day hard. This has now all been distilled down to the XCD system and I need to pick an action/video platform  - most likely Canon. 

Not having the M 50mm 0.95 or the S 45mm to hand though for when I want that particular look is a shame. But the XCD 55mm is very close (to the S 45) - and I am told the 80mm 1.9 is very special and Noct-like (I haven't tried yet). But the real game changer is the workflow. Take a 100mp raw file - and boom - its on my iPad in 1s (via cable) and then able to share - or a little longer wirelessly. And 1TB inbuilt storage. WHY haven't these workflow enhancements been implemented by others years ago? Photography (recreational) now is all about being able to share images quickly. I will still do a weekly batch download to Lightroom - but having my high quality images immediately available (with ease) in Apple Photos - that's such a game changer for me. Plus - the Hassy colours are so good - other than levels and cropping - the images are good to go

[Googaliser]

12 minutes ago, summarity said:

Yes, I do mostly landscape, architecture, and minimalist stuff. I've always shot in AF-s, single point or MF on the Qs and have thoroughly enjoyed that. After much deliberation, I think the X2D is a better fit, not least because I can swap lenses if need be, but mostly because it's so singularly focused on the kind of slow, deliberate photography I enjoy.

I highly recommend the 20-35mm. Am not normally a zoom fan - but it is incredible and at 20mm (/16mm) has the widest FOV of any modern Medium format lens I'm aware of. My only criticism is vignetting. I normally have never paid attention to this since it is so easy to correct - but it can reach levels where the corrections may lead to degradation. 

[Smogg]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

I am constantly switching between SL3 and X2D and would have a hard time in picking one over the other as they are so different.

I miss LPC and live highlight clipping in X2D most.

If X2D has live highlight clipping, then why would we need cameras from other manufacturers? 😂 Now users have a wide choice.

[Overgaard]

12 hours ago, Googaliser said:

I am told the 80mm 1.9 is very special and Noct-like (I haven't tried yet). 

It is in some regards, but doesn't have the rock'n roll look of playing with light as the Noctilux has. The Hasselblad 80/1.9 is more like a 75/1.25 if any comparison, because of the perfection of the image. 

[Dazzajl]

Is there really no highlight clipping view on the Hassy? That seems like a massive decision to take away a much used feature of any electronic viewing camera. 
 

There doesn’t seem to be many reasons to choose H over the GFX system, except perhaps looks? You get a Sony sensor and Fuji engineered lenses either way  

 

[SrMi]

Just now, Dazzajl said:

Is there really no highlight clipping view on the Hassy? That seems like a massive decision to take away a much used feature of any electronic viewing camera. 
 

There doesn’t seem to be many reasons to choose H over the GFX system, except perhaps looks? You get a Sony sensor and Fuji engineered lenses either way  

 

Neither Hasselblad, Canon, nor Nikon have live highlight clipping warnings, only in image review.

I have both GFX 100 II and X2D, and GFX gets almost zero use, while X2D is used frequently.

Fuji built H mount lenses and Zeiss built the V mount lenses. However, we are talking about X mount Hasselblads.

[Dazzajl]

39 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Neither Hasselblad, Canon, nor Nikon have live highlight clipping warnings, only in image review.

I have both GFX 100 II and X2D, and GFX gets almost zero use, while X2D is used frequently.

Fuji built H mount lenses and Zeiss built the V mount lenses. However, we are talking about X mount Hasselblads.

I’ve not been a Canon user since they went mirrorless cameras but I know they have live clipping. Fairly sure some have an auto exposure feature that nudges up to the clipping point. Doubt I’d use that as that might be giving up more control than my OCD would allow. 
 

I stand corrected on the lenses, I see than under DJI they now work with Nitto. It would be fabulous to see some of the amazing DJI ingenuity start coming through in new Hasselblad lines  

[SrMi]

6 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

I’ve not been a Canon user since they went mirrorless cameras but I know they have live clipping.

My R5 and R5II do not have live highlight clipping. Maybe DSLR's live view had it.

7 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

Fairly sure some have an auto exposure feature that nudges up to the clipping point

Which metering mode would that be? Are you thinking of third-party firmware Magic Lantern that works only with DSLRs and not with mirrorless cameras?

11 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

I stand corrected on the lenses, I see than under DJI they now work with Nitto. It would be fabulous to see some of the amazing DJI ingenuity start coming through in new Hasselblad lines  

Hasselblad has more high-quality lens design experience than DJI. Otherwise, DJI would not boast that its camera uses " Hasselblad’s groundbreaking research and development."

[ynp]

Once the Leica Q-43 is available I will lose all my interest in the CS Hasselblad. The Q-43 will cover my leaf shutter needs for working outside of my studio. 😉

[Dazzajl]

26 minutes ago, SrMi said:

My R5 and R5II do not have live highlight clipping. Maybe DSLR's live view had it.

Which metering mode would that be? Are you thinking of third-party firmware Magic Lantern that works only with DSLRs and not with mirrorless cameras?

Hasselblad has more high-quality lens design experience than DJI. Otherwise, DJI would not boast that its camera uses " Hasselblad’s groundbreaking research and development."

Looking at the specs, I must have got still and video modes mixed up. My apologies. 
 

That’s seems like an odd omission from Canon too. But I’d already moved away by then so no great loss to me. 
 

Hasselblad might have more experience than DJI in designing lenses. Not that much standing on their own in the age of massive resolution sensors though. What DJI can bring to them and what it seems they can benefit most from, is a vision that is not in any way hampered by what has always been done before. The kit they have put in the hands of average punters and working snappers alike has allowed so much freedom in creative vision where a massive budget would have been required before. I’d love to the see the Hasselblad brand become truly relevant again. 

[SrMi]

9 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

That’s seems like an odd omission from Canon too. But I’d already moved away by then so no great loss to me. 

My point is that Nikon and Canon are not having it either. While unfortunate, it is not that rare that cameras do not support it. You can fake it with Nikon using a custom profile, and Canon has a large RGB histogram, while X2D has only a tiny luminosity histogram.

12 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

Hasselblad might have more experience than DJI in designing lenses. Not that much standing on their own in the age of massive resolution sensors though. What DJI can bring to them and what it seems they can benefit most from, is a vision that is not in any way hampered by what has always been done before. The kit they have put in the hands of average punters and working snappers alike has allowed so much freedom in creative vision where a massive budget would have been required before. I’d love to the see the Hasselblad brand become truly relevant again. 

It is undoubtedly a challenge to mix the new kids on the block from DJI and the traditionalists from Hasselblad, and something good could come out of it.

I believe that Hasselblad has already become relevant again with the launch of X mount. Their production capacities seem already maxed out, and I do not think they would want to increase it. Growth can kill a company, too.

[Dazzajl]

26 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It is undoubtedly a challenge to mix the new kids on the block from DJI and the traditionalists from Hasselblad, and something good could come out of it.

I do really hope so. I don't feel that Hasselblad have anything like the M or Q series, something that cost/value discussions aside, are universally considered to be the best in class. The X system is a gorgeous piece of design but for most people and most scenarios the GFX cameras will be more suited to the task and with equal or arguably better IQ.

Something brand new and ahead of the game from the H brand would be wonderful for the whole photographic world.

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Look here: Leica Q

[SrMi]

50 minutes ago, Dazzajl said:

I do really hope so. I don't feel that Hasselblad have anything like the M or Q series, something that cost/value discussions aside, are universally considered to be the best in class. The X system is a gorgeous piece of design but for most people and most scenarios the GFX cameras will be more suited to the task and with equal or arguably better IQ.

Something brand new and ahead of the game from the H brand would be wonderful for the whole photographic world.

I know of several people, some active on this forum, who own both GFX 100 and X2D cameras and prefer to shoot with X2D because X2D works better for many tasks. This is not only about camera and lens looks. It is about ergonomics and IQ as well.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

I know of several people, some active on this forum, who own both GFX 100 and X2D cameras and prefer to shoot with X2D because X2D works better for many tasks. This is not only about camera and lens looks. It is about ergonomics and IQ as well.

 

Would you mind me asking a bunch of questions about the X2D based on your experience (or anyone else if they want to comment)? I'm contemplating another M11 (-P) or an X2D. I think I've ruled out the GFX 100(X) cameras. I apologize greatly for the number of questions, but since you have experience with the same cameras I have but still prefer the X2D, I'd value your input even if just on a few of these:

• How is the X2D EVF, especially compared to your SL3 and previous experience with the R5? I have read that the EVF of the X2D will go into a lower resolution mode when using autofocus much like the SL3. Is that true, and if so, does it bother you?
• How is the image quality in the EVF when using magnified manual focus? I was not happy with the SL3 magnified focus resolution, especially with low contrast M lenses.
• I've read Lloyd Chambers eviscerate the new V lenses for inconsistent sharpness across the frame at infinity. Have you used yours for landscape at say f/5.6 to f/8 and noticed any issues at 100-200% magnification? How do your V lenses compare to your GF lenses of the same or similar focal length? At infinity and f/5.6 to f/8, are they at least as good across the frame as the GF 45/50/63?
• Do you prefer the focus falloff and bokeh of the V lenses wide open at closer distances compared to say the GF 50 and/or 63? 
• I've seen a few X2D "reviews" of early units that literally had the testers cursing at the autofocus. In DPR's initial review for example, it couldn't AF in situations where the guy's super old Hasselblad DSLR performed perfectly. I was happy with the SL3 AFs with Sigma DG DN lenses – does the X2D focus as well with the V lenses?
• I thought I read that the V lens manual focus clutch allows for true manual focus versus focus by wire? Is that true? Does it feel like focusing a manual focus lens?
• Is the infinity hard stop of the V lenses true infinity like an M lens? I'm assuming not due to them being AF lenses, but thought I'd ask anyway.
• Are the DOF scales on the V lenses fairly accurate without the true DOF distance being shifted in one direction or the other like the Q? I know the actual digital tolerance of DOF at 100mp 1:1 viewing is still very narrow, but I just want to know if it falls where you'd expect compared to the DOF lens markings.
• Does the camera body ever get hot to the touch in normal shooting conditions? Warm? 
• I'd assume the battery life is a little better than the SL3, would that be a fair assumption?
• How overblown is the issue I've read about with some reporting loose tolerances with the V lenses to the mount – is there too much rotational play to feel solid? I'd assuming just having the dealer swap out the lens would find me another one with tighter tolerance if I had an issue. Or should I assume a baseline of the V lenses being ever so slightly loose on the mount?
• Do you find the manual focus experience with adapted lenses at least as good as the SL3 (ignoring the issue of electronic rolling shutter versus mechanical). Or do you consider the X2D a camera better dedicated to native lenses?
• I'm not concerned with the lack of highlight clipping warning as long as the exposure preview in the EVF is fairly accurate. How would you rate the accuracy of the exposure preview at the default EVF brightness setting. Are there any caveats such as the rear LCD is very accurate but the EVF is much less accurate?