Tips for nailing focus?

[fabior]

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I can focus much more easily using a Leica 1.25x viewfinder which in practice, for convenience and not to lose it, I always keep mounted. Even when I use a wide angle and not a noctilux. Of course the calibration must be correct.

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

Thank you all! Some great tips here - and of course, practice practice practice being the key. I think I'll also download PhotoPills as having that DoF chart will be handy (I've tried to utilize the one on the lens as well, but still getting used to it).

And certainly, for critical focus at low apertures, it seems that the RF likely won't work - the Visoflex plus zoom is critical as the following two test shots I just took illustrate:

50mm f1.4 - focused with RF (shot on tripod, so couldn't really do the wiggle technique, but tried covering and uncovering the right RF window with my finger to see if stuff moved). Front focused the target. Challenge with the RF is it is hard to know if you're looking straight on at the patch - there's a parallax effect within the viewfinder as well which throws off the alignment.

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50mm f1.4 with the Visoflex plus zoom

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by TheEyesHaveIt

[lct]

Seems like the RF of your M11 needs some calibration and your outcomes with the EVF are not as sharp as they should be with a lens like the Summilux 50/1.4 asph. Testing the camera, the lens, and possibly your eyesight could be a wise idea.

[TheEyesHaveIt]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

Seems like the RF of your M11 needs some calibration and your outcomes with the EVF are not as sharp as they should be with a lens like the Summilux 50/1.4 asph. Testing the camera, the lens, and possibly your eyesight could be a wise idea.

These were from about 10 feet away (and the images are heavily zoomed in screenshots from Lightroom) so even the zoom in the EVF is not close enough. I have noticed if I hook my iPhone up to the camera and use the Leica app as the "EVF", I can get even sharper.

 

But how would I go about confirming that I need calibration (either of the RF or the lens)?

Edited May 24, 2023 by TheEyesHaveIt

[lct]

2 minutes ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

[...] how would I go about confirming that I need calibration (either of the RF or the lens)[...]

A good repair shop like DAG in the USA would certainly be glad to help.

[dugby]

 

Your 50Lux seems to be front-focusing by at least 6.5" units...  which 50Lux do you have ?

 

My 50 LUX (ASPH) (on both M240 and M10-R) can have some rear focusing if I don't do the following :

I start from infinity and only turn the focusing one way (only) until I hit the focus of the subject, do NOT toggle back and forth over the focusing position.

If I use the above technique my 50Lux will focus almost perfectly at #1.4

 

All my other lenses on M240 and M10-R focus perfectly, even with toggling back and forth over the focal point: 35FLE, 50APO and Zeiss ZM Planar 50

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by dugby

[WvE]

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What works for me is to set the focus ring to infinite, as a starting position, then try to nail the focus (works pretty fast). The quick wiggle with the finger in front of the distance meter window is usually also helpful. 

[Banned 103051]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:14 AM, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Hi all,

I took my first big trip with my M11 and overall, really enjoyed it. I have noticed looking at some of the shots in Lightroom though that I missed focus more than I would've liked. And even when I did get the subject in focus, it didn't feel spot on / as sharp as I thought it would be.

Alan Schaller posted a few shots from his M today and I was just amazed at how tack sharp they are, even with low depth of fields. So was curious to hear from more experienced M shooters, what would be some tips to help improve nailing focus in the moment?

- Use Visoflex + zoom (not always practical)

- Improve handheld technique? Any specific suggestions here?

- Could my viewfinder be miscalibrated?

 

Alan's work: https://www.instagram.com/p/CsjFWSospCU/

 

 

Cheers all!

Focusing a rangefinder is very simple. If you can’t get sharp focus then your lens and body need to go to calibration together. 

With all his editing getting sharp images like Alan isn’t rocket science. I’m more interested in seeing your photos though. 

Understand that getting sharp focus at f1.4 will be hard and some of your photos are going to be out. Because the subject moved or you moved or maybe you breathed. The depth of focus may be too narrow.

most of my photos are at f8 so I rarely run into issues. For me a shallow DOF photo is f2.8. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Chingchong

[TheEyesHaveIt]

12 hours ago, dugby said:

 

Your 50Lux seems to be front-focusing by at least 6.5" units...  which 50Lux do you have ?

 

My 50 LUX (ASPH) (on both M240 and M10-R) can have some rear focusing if I don't do the following :

I start from infinity and only turn the focusing one way (only) until I hit the focus of the subject, do NOT toggle back and forth over the focusing position.

If I use the above technique my 50Lux will focus almost perfectly at #1.4

 

All my other lenses on M240 and M10-R focus perfectly, even with toggling back and forth over the focal point: 35FLE, 50APO and Zeiss ZM Planar 50

 

How do I know if the lens is front-focusing or if the viewfinder if miscalibrated though? With the EVF to focus, the lens focused in the right place (but maybe it is in the "wrong" place based on the position of the focus ring?).

[lct]

1 hour ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

How do I know if the lens is front-focusing or if the viewfinder if miscalibrated though? With the EVF to focus, the lens focused in the right place (but maybe it is in the "wrong" place based on the position of the focus ring?).

RF miscalibrations are not relevant when the RF is not used for focusing. I'm not sure your lens is in perfect shape, though, so i would ask a good repair shop like DAG, as suggested. 

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

How do I know if the lens is front-focusing or if the viewfinder if miscalibrated though? With the EVF to focus, the lens focused in the right place (but maybe it is in the "wrong" place based on the position of the focus ring?).

The distance markings on the focus ring are a hold over from 60+ years ago and may not be accurate. If you use an EVF to achieve focus and check it against the focus patch in the viewfinder the patch should show accurate focus. If it does not, and the EVF image is in focus, the rangefinder may need calibrating.

[jaapv]

And always focus down from infinity, like any mechanism there is a certain amount  of gear lash in the rangefinder.

[Banned 103051]

17 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

But how would I go about confirming that I need calibration (either of the RF or the lens)?

I think you’ve already confirmed it. If you have a Leica store near by go pay them a visit. or call

https://www.dagcamera.com/contact.html

[TheEyesHaveIt]

Out of curiosity, I shot a few test shots with my other lenses - to really see if the RF was off every single time or if perhaps the 50 ASPH summilux had some issue (consistently). I used the "start at infinity" focus method and refocused for the visoflex and then the RF independently each time. The challenge I noticed was when focusing with the RF, it is hard to tell subtle changes in focus since the patch doesn't really move much (or I am blind). Vertical lines look to match up within a range of the focus ring (which at a low aperture, may not be as precise as desired then). When focusing with the Visoflex, the RF patch looked aligned in the viewfinder. I think I was able to get slightly more spot on with the Visoflex, but the RF patch didn't miss by a lot either.

So I'm confused if the camera or the lens are really miscalibrated or if this is as close to precision as RF focusing is going to get at a distance (~3-4 feet in this case)?

24mm SEM f3.4 - visoflex and then RF

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35 Summilux FLE f1.4 - visoflex and then RF

  

 

50 Summilux ASPH f1.4 - visoflex and then RF

  

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello TheEyesHaveIt,

After you focused on a subject with the range/viewfinder: Did you "wiggle" the camera /lens to see if the subject inside the 2 rangefinder patches (1 over the other.) "wiggled"? Did the subject stay together as 1 cohesive unit inside the rectangle? If the subject "wiggled": It is not in focus.

Sometimes what looks like 1 image of the subject within the 2 overlapped rangefinder patches "wiggles" when you gently move the camera/lens back & forth a little. Because the subject is not focused as precisely as it appeared to be.

Also: The idea of "focusing once & then stopping" is what is recommended for focusing with a Single Lens Reflex camera focusing system. This is because of a person's eye's "accommodation" when using various optical systems used for focusing in a variety of Single Lens Reflex cameras.

Range/viewfinder cameras, Like a Leica "M" use a different system where a person sees 2 separate, partially transparent, rectangles moving at different rates as the lens is focused. When the 2 rectangles coincide EXACTLY over the subject: The subject is in focus. If the subject is in focus the subject inside the 2 overlapped rectangles does NOT "wiggle" when a person "wiggles" the camera/lens.

I have found no problems with the accuracy of focus when focusing back & forth again after focusing the first time: With an "M" range/viewfinder.

Sometimes a little additional focusing back & forth: After "wiggling" the camera/lens: After originally focusing: As I suggested above: Improves the accuracy of focus. Meaning: The "wiggling" of the subject stops: When the correctly focused camera/lens is "wiggled".

Keeping in mind that the most accurate focus is: Focusing thru the lens at working aperture. On a solid tripod & head combination. With a cable release.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 25, 2023 by Michael Geschlecht

[TheEyesHaveIt]

55 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello TheEyesHaveIt,

After you focused on a subject with the range/viewfinder: Did you "wiggle" the camera /lens to see if the subject inside the 2 rangefinder patches (1 over the other.) "wiggled"? Did the subject stay together as 1 cohesive unit inside the rectangle? If the subject "wiggled": It is not in focus.

Sometimes what looks like 1 image of the subject within the 2 overlapped rangefinder patches "wiggles" when you gently move the camera/lens back & forth a little. Because the subject is not focused as precisely as it appeared to be.

Also: The idea of "focusing once & then stopping" is what is recommended for focusing with a Single Lens Reflex camera focusing system. This is because of a person's eye's "accommodation" when using various optical systems used for focusing in a variety of Single Lens Reflex cameras.

Range/viewfinder cameras, Like a Leica "M" use a different system where a person sees 2 separate, partially transparent, rectangles moving at different rates as the lens is focused. When the 2 rectangles coincide EXACTLY over the subject: The subject is in focus. If the subject is in focus the subject inside the 2 overlapped rectangles does NOT "wiggle" when a person "wiggles" the camera/lens.

I have found no problems with the accuracy of focus when focusing back & forth again after focusing the first time: With an "M" range/viewfinder.

Sometimes a little additional focusing back & forth: After "wiggling" the camera/lens: After originally focusing: As I suggested above: Improves the accuracy of focus. Meaning: The "wiggling" of the subject stops: When the correctly focused camera/lens is "wiggled".

Keeping in mind that the most accurate focus is: Focusing thru the lens at working aperture. On a solid tripod & head combination. With a cable release.

Best Regards,

Michael

Thank you for this - I will try this technique. The shots above were shot on a tripod so I didn’t want to move the camera if possible. But I’ll try to wiggle side to side and see if I can improve my RF focusing.

[Chaemono]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb TheEyesHaveIt:

How do I know if the lens is front-focusing or if the viewfinder if miscalibrated though? 

By trying another lens wide open on the same M body and only using the patch to focus. 

vor 12 Stunden schrieb TheEyesHaveIt:

How do I know if the lens is front-focusing or if the viewfinder if miscalibrated though?

By having someone younger with good eyes use the viewfinder to focus. An employee at a store that sells M cameras should be able to find out quickly if the rangefinder is miscalibrated.

[hirohhhh]

Everything on Instagram looks in focus. It's too small to judge if the photo is tack sharp. Zoom out your out of focus photos to that size and then compare. If they still looks out of the focus, then you really missed it a lot.

I'm sure many here gave you a lot of useful advices, but all I can say it comes with practice, really. I remember when I purchased my first M, and when I switched from auto to manual focus system, I constantly practiced focusing in my house. Even on my desk. I'd shot subjects around my room, trying to feel the focus ring without looking it. It takes few days to really get into the state that you can't miss a lot.

The same way I learned to see in a different focal lengths. For example, I was for a long time stuck with 28mm, and then I purchased 50mm and it wasn't natural to me. Everything was so close. I was frustrated, I wanted to return the lens. But then I learned to see the angle with my eyes that my lens see. I'd quickly turn myself and shoot and before even looking at the screen, I'd try to guess in my head how the shot looks like. After several days, I can see in 50mm focal length.

But it takes some conscious practice. Don't just shoot without thinking. Feel the focus ring. Remember how it feels when the focus tab is in the middle and what is the distance. Also, learn to visualize the distance. Learn how 0.7, 1m, or 1.2m looks like. It's easy to get wrong.

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[jaapv]

8 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Out of curiosity, I shot a few test shots with my other lenses - to really see if the RF was off every single time or if perhaps the 50 ASPH summilux had some issue (consistently). I used the "start at infinity" focus method and refocused for the visoflex and then the RF independently each time. The challenge I noticed was when focusing with the RF, it is hard to tell subtle changes in focus since the patch doesn't really move much (or I am blind). Vertical lines look to match up within a range of the focus ring (which at a low aperture, may not be as precise as desired then). When focusing with the Visoflex, the RF patch looked aligned in the viewfinder. I think I was able to get slightly more spot on with the Visoflex, but the RF patch didn't miss by a lot either.

So I'm confused if the camera or the lens are really miscalibrated or if this is as close to precision as RF focusing is going to get at a distance (~3-4 feet in this case)?

24mm SEM f3.4 - visoflex and then RF

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

   

 

35 Summilux FLE f1.4 - visoflex and then RF

  

 

50 Summilux ASPH f1.4 - visoflex and then RF

  

On the Visoflex photos the only thing that appears to be in focus is the ballhead as far as can be judged on such small images. I doubt that there is anything wrong with the camera or lens. 

As for using the focus patch, Michael's wiggle technique works, but the patch is really aligned when you notice a small jump in contrast in the patch. 

[jaapv]

Just to put an end to speculations that a rangefinder is less accurate than other focussing methods, here is a diagram from Leica M Advanced Photo School by Günther Osterloh - reproduced under Zitatrecht

The limiting factor is user skill. 
 

 

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