Is the M11 a safe purchase yet?

[Photoworks]

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that proves the point that the last few people are posting negative rumors or M11

this people are not M11 Users and only M10R

why all this misinformation from people that don't have any experience? do they justify not spending the money for M11? What is it?

because I don't think it helps anyone?

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[Guest]

1 hour ago, Somchai said:

I definitely think the OP should buy one and report back with his experience. It’ll be a good example of just a random person buying a random M11. Should be an example of the “vast majority” of users. 

What a strange thing to say. You do sound like you have an agenda.

[Sjz]

I took my M11 out of the box, formatted a card in it and have used it since.  It has never frozen. It works as it should.  I keep the firmware up to date, as I do with other cameras,   Leica are confident enough to release a variant of it.  Yes, I believe it is a safe purchase now (and a year ago).  
 

I hope you enjoy using it without worry if / when you get it.

[Sjz]

18 minutes ago, Somchai said:

See? @Corius Another happy customer. Buy it. Use it. Report back like @Sjz has just done. 
 

@Sjzhow long have you had yours?

Hi. It was about a year ago, one became available (they were in short supply just after launch) and I managed to secure it.  The only issue has been this users lack of talent. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Sjz

[marchyman]

27 minutes ago, Sjz said:

The only issue has been this users lack of talent. 

Alas, I suffer from that same issue.  I keep hoping there will be a fix sometime in the future.

[T25UFO]

35 minutes ago, marchyman said:

Alas, I suffer from that same issue.  I keep hoping there will be a fix sometime in the future.

It's done through a firmware update called lobotomy 😂

[High_n_Dry]

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I sold my M10 and went to the M11 about a month ago.

I love it and have had no problems. Use it with Voightlander, vintage non 6 bit coded lenses, and modern lenses without problems. I have used it daily and it has been rock solid.

 

 

[MrPaulK]

8 hours ago, Somchai said:

How long ago did you purchase it?

Roughly a year ago. I don't shoot high numbers of frames per outing, but go out often to use it.

[Warton]

define safe first?

[M11 for me]

Dear @maidenfan84,

Would be interesting to know if the answers so far have satisfied your needs. Or do you need another 30 opinions? Note that we have already a thread that is about freezing. There you get even more than 1'000 qualified and interesting opinions. And the more you read there the less you will tough an M11.

[250swb]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:43 AM, maidenfan84 said:

I was deciding between a used M10 or a new M11. I intend to keep the camera for a long time so I settled on the M11. I’m curious to know if I should avoid it and reconsider, or is it pretty safe, overall? I read about many freezing issues, viewfinders out of alignment, etc and it does put me off quite a bit. But, I don’t know if these are rare cases, or if they’re widespread. Please advise, thank you, in advance 

There's a thread dedicated to images from the M11 and you'll see they are pretty much identical with those made by an M10, so nobody's found anything new to photograph with the M11. And there's nothing much different that people do with them either, questions about 'how big can I print' have been redundant for a long time before the M11 came along.

[pgh]

Nothing about the M11 specifically but I find it better to buy a used Leica in general. All three Leicas I've gotten new have had issues straight out of the factory. This was an M8, M10, and SL2. I wouldn't buy an M11 new (or used), but it's not because I'm scared of the reliability. I just don't love the files for my purposes, and what it adds is nothing meaningful to my purpose. It seems like a great camera, and also a lot of money for what is officially overkill (for me).  

[lct]

The M11 allows for using WA and UWA lenses w/o disturbing color shift thanks to its BSI sensor. Not sure if the M10R or other M cameras can compete on that. Otherwise, freezes are a thing of the past since FW 1.6.1 for me but I don't spend my time pushing the M11 to its limits and I follow scrupulously Leica's instructions.

Edited May 1, 2023 by lct

[BillCB]

I had an M9 for many years and never had an issue. I recently returned to Leica (M11 and Q2M) and still have no issues. I like the fact that I can check the accuracy of rangefinder focussing from time to time by using live view. My camera and three lenses, including the new 50mm Lux ASPH II, are spot on.

Bill

[Santos]

Short Answer, if you are a Pro and this will be your Main Tool then hold off for maybe a Couple of Months. If you can handle longer than expected Repair Times by having another System (For Instance I have a Q2/SL2S/M11Silver/M10D/M10M so its not as bid of an Issue to me although its frustrating.

View Finder:

Long Answer, I had my 3 Cameras Misaligned at the Same Time, The M11 was used sparsely but went Out of Alignment (3 Months in id Say) ruining a Shoot for me at an Oryx Farm (Half way through I Noticed it Front Focused with the 135mm mind you I was using a 1.4X Magnifier at the Time hence I am certain it wasn't me).

Went back home mad as I got a Rare Shot of Two Oryxes getting it on. It was blurred... even Animal Planet wouldn't Blur That! So at Home I tried 5 Lenses to confirm. 90 Elmarit was unusable with the OVF as it was hard to predict and adjust. 75 Summarit and APO were more usable at 2 Meters or Less (Ofcourse the More Distance the more Pronounced the Effect. The 50 Noct Classic was forgiving until you Zoom In while the APO Id say gave Similar Results to the 75mm's.

My M10's took a lot of Abuse so it was Time to Align them (Mind you these Two Cameras spent atleast a 100 Hours on Airplanes the Alignment Killers but the effect was less noticeable except under scrutiny). Hence, Mid November I shipped my Bodies.

Sent all Three Bodies to Germany to get them Upholstered, Engraved and Realigned. The M10's needed Sensor Alignment. Both My M10's I received in Late Feb/Early March, while the M11 needs till May 19th so they can Start Alignment.

As a Pro-Photographer with a Gallery in May this would have been a Nightmare if I didn't have Enough Photos. Thankfully I did and will use Gigapixel for One Off Large Prints (To be Honest GigaPixel Rarely let me Down, The Software which I would use for my 10MP Raws using TL Lenses with SL2S became a Part of my Workflow.

Freezing:

Not much to say about Freezing, when the Issue was at its Height I found that letting my Camera go Into Stand-By instead of Turning it Off and that helped a Lot, and after a Firmware I don't think it ever froze (The M11 Brass At least since I didn't have enough time with my M11 Alloy).

Its not all Doom and Gloom:

The M11 I must say is the Next Step for Leica. It is so much of a Leap that going back and forth between it and the M9 felt like a step down for the first time (Please don't Flay me. Its the Main Camera my GF uses and my Weekend Camera).

Ergonomics:

M11 with Grip (Alloy not Brass, since the Brass is Top Heavy and with Heavier Lenses its not Worth it as its not really Brass at this Point just a Plate) makes me go for Hours especially with my 28MM Lux, 35 APO, 50 Apo (Brass), 50 Noct Classic, and 75mm Summarit Feel Like a Light Weight Monster.

Performance:

The E Shutter... I hate and love this Feature! I hate that its Silent and Unusable at Lower Shutter Speeds. Finally no more ND Filters!

Funny Story: Made a Deal with a Lead Engineer that if they fix that issue, which he said he cant comparing it to a Widow Maker 996 GT2 RS saying its like using that Car to do Chores it doesn't make Sense! Well I Owned One and told him No You use Eshutter to Shoot and be Sneaky, You pick up your Groceries with the GTRS to Compensate XD. There are uses for both! We agreed that if One is made I get a "Widow Maker Edition" Lol! I hope he can do it Lol.

Downsides:

Brass.... I use to say if its not Brass its Ass now its the Opposite. The M11 Brass Version only has a Top Plate made of Brass. It Balances Weirdly even with the Grip and the Lightest Lens I have (28 Summaron). Id avoid that, and go for Alloy. The Battery Metal Plate does not go through the Same Treatment as the Top Plate, Paint Faded Away to Bare Alloy in One Month (Yup no Brass to be Found).

Overall:

The M11 with the Grip Finger Loop and EVF is an Unparalleled Monster! It is begrudgingly the Best M. (Although id Argue the Ergonomics of the M9 Titan was the Future of Leica and I Hope for an M11 with that Design, but a Man can Dream).

The M11 can be used as an IR Camera! I know I Just read that on the Forums did it with my M10M and it Worked! Compared to SFX200 with the R72 Filter and it Matches! Worked with my M10D and M9 too. So that's a Plus.

The Mosaic Algorithm is not a Gimmick no matter what One Says as I saw what's in the Black Box  . I Love Shooting 18mp with my Classic Lenses. 36 as a Standard (As it Closely Matches the M10M so Workflow is the Same).

LSD (Leica Store Dubai) offered me an M11 for the Duration of the Repair but I Already have one so had to Decline. I then Realized my M11 Brass is Out of Alignment.... I am sticking to an EVF and hoping i ever get my M11 Alloy Back.

Conclusion:

Wait for an M11P or when Posts of M11 Issues die down. Not saying you will get a Bad Copy as in Dubai none have been Sent out that had a Major Issue. However, M11P will be at least a Year Out looking at Leica Cycles.

If you are One of the Old Guard and Want the Classic Experience I would Say M10R BP. That would be the only one I would see going up in Value and id Trade on of my M11's in a Heart Beat for One.

But as a Piece of Advice, if you are New to the System don't get an Older Model (Except an M9 half my Gallery Images Selling 2k$ Plus were made using that)

Well this was a Long Post, thought adding a Photo of my M10M (Same Octane Blue Leather has been Applied to my M11) as I enjoy showing her off!

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[Antonio Russell]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:43 AM, maidenfan84 said:

I was deciding between a used M10 or a new M11. I intend to keep the camera for a long time so I settled on the M11. I’m curious to know if I should avoid it and reconsider, or is it pretty safe, overall? I read about many freezing issues, viewfinders out of alignment, etc and it does put me off quite a bit. But, I don’t know if these are rare cases, or if they’re widespread. Please advise, thank you, in advance 

I would say go for the M11 if. you can. The bricking issues are real and seem to have been pretty widespread but Leica will replace faulty units. I had my camera replaced last summer and it has been fine since, although I have experienced a few minor freezes these are nothing compared to when the original completely bricked. If tou live somewhere with favourable consumer proctections then go for it.

[kinetic]

I bought my M11 used and got to inspect and try it out before buying in person. I couldn't find anything wrong with it, and it was mint. It's been amazing since.

I think with things like Leica, buying used has a lot more upside than just a slightly lower price, including checking for the DOA type of issues. If the seller is honest/upfront too, they should be able to let you know as well.

[jakontil]

21 hours ago, Santos said:

Short Answer, if you are a Pro and this will be your Main Tool then hold off for maybe a Couple of Months. If you can handle longer than expected Repair Times by having another System (For Instance I have a Q2/SL2S/M11Silver/M10D/M10M so its not as bid of an Issue to me although its frustrating.

View Finder:

Long Answer, I had my 3 Cameras Misaligned at the Same Time, The M11 was used sparsely but went Out of Alignment (3 Months in id Say) ruining a Shoot for me at an Oryx Farm (Half way through I Noticed it Front Focused with the 135mm mind you I was using a 1.4X Magnifier at the Time hence I am certain it wasn't me).

Went back home mad as I got a Rare Shot of Two Oryxes getting it on. It was blurred... even Animal Planet wouldn't Blur That! So at Home I tried 5 Lenses to confirm. 90 Elmarit was unusable with the OVF as it was hard to predict and adjust. 75 Summarit and APO were more usable at 2 Meters or Less (Ofcourse the More Distance the more Pronounced the Effect. The 50 Noct Classic was forgiving until you Zoom In while the APO Id say gave Similar Results to the 75mm's.

My M10's took a lot of Abuse so it was Time to Align them (Mind you these Two Cameras spent atleast a 100 Hours on Airplanes the Alignment Killers but the effect was less noticeable except under scrutiny). Hence, Mid November I shipped my Bodies.

Sent all Three Bodies to Germany to get them Upholstered, Engraved and Realigned. The M10's needed Sensor Alignment. Both My M10's I received in Late Feb/Early March, while the M11 needs till May 19th so they can Start Alignment.

As a Pro-Photographer with a Gallery in May this would have been a Nightmare if I didn't have Enough Photos. Thankfully I did and will use Gigapixel for One Off Large Prints (To be Honest GigaPixel Rarely let me Down, The Software which I would use for my 10MP Raws using TL Lenses with SL2S became a Part of my Workflow.

Freezing:

Not much to say about Freezing, when the Issue was at its Height I found that letting my Camera go Into Stand-By instead of Turning it Off and that helped a Lot, and after a Firmware I don't think it ever froze (The M11 Brass At least since I didn't have enough time with my M11 Alloy).

Its not all Doom and Gloom:

The M11 I must say is the Next Step for Leica. It is so much of a Leap that going back and forth between it and the M9 felt like a step down for the first time (Please don't Flay me. Its the Main Camera my GF uses and my Weekend Camera).

Ergonomics:

M11 with Grip (Alloy not Brass, since the Brass is Top Heavy and with Heavier Lenses its not Worth it as its not really Brass at this Point just a Plate) makes me go for Hours especially with my 28MM Lux, 35 APO, 50 Apo (Brass), 50 Noct Classic, and 75mm Summarit Feel Like a Light Weight Monster.

Performance:

The E Shutter... I hate and love this Feature! I hate that its Silent and Unusable at Lower Shutter Speeds. Finally no more ND Filters!

Funny Story: Made a Deal with a Lead Engineer that if they fix that issue, which he said he cant comparing it to a Widow Maker 996 GT2 RS saying its like using that Car to do Chores it doesn't make Sense! Well I Owned One and told him No You use Eshutter to Shoot and be Sneaky, You pick up your Groceries with the GTRS to Compensate XD. There are uses for both! We agreed that if One is made I get a "Widow Maker Edition" Lol! I hope he can do it Lol.

Downsides:

Brass.... I use to say if its not Brass its Ass now its the Opposite. The M11 Brass Version only has a Top Plate made of Brass. It Balances Weirdly even with the Grip and the Lightest Lens I have (28 Summaron). Id avoid that, and go for Alloy. The Battery Metal Plate does not go through the Same Treatment as the Top Plate, Paint Faded Away to Bare Alloy in One Month (Yup no Brass to be Found).

Overall:

The M11 with the Grip Finger Loop and EVF is an Unparalleled Monster! It is begrudgingly the Best M. (Although id Argue the Ergonomics of the M9 Titan was the Future of Leica and I Hope for an M11 with that Design, but a Man can Dream).

The M11 can be used as an IR Camera! I know I Just read that on the Forums did it with my M10M and it Worked! Compared to SFX200 with the R72 Filter and it Matches! Worked with my M10D and M9 too. So that's a Plus.

The Mosaic Algorithm is not a Gimmick no matter what One Says as I saw what's in the Black Box  . I Love Shooting 18mp with my Classic Lenses. 36 as a Standard (As it Closely Matches the M10M so Workflow is the Same).

LSD (Leica Store Dubai) offered me an M11 for the Duration of the Repair but I Already have one so had to Decline. I then Realized my M11 Brass is Out of Alignment.... I am sticking to an EVF and hoping i ever get my M11 Alloy Back.

Conclusion:

Wait for an M11P or when Posts of M11 Issues die down. Not saying you will get a Bad Copy as in Dubai none have been Sent out that had a Major Issue. However, M11P will be at least a Year Out looking at Leica Cycles.

If you are One of the Old Guard and Want the Classic Experience I would Say M10R BP. That would be the only one I would see going up in Value and id Trade on of my M11's in a Heart Beat for One.

But as a Piece of Advice, if you are New to the System don't get an Older Model (Except an M9 half my Gallery Images Selling 2k$ Plus were made using that)

Well this was a Long Post, thought adding a Photo of my M10M (Same Octane Blue Leather has been Applied to my M11) as I enjoy showing her off!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

So no more brass from you santos? 🤓😝😝

the bottom plate is made of brass too for the brass version, being battery exempted, kinda plasticky or probably magnesium allow, there’s a technical data sheet i found earlier bout the bottom

 

anyway, went for a 2 weeks holiday and shooting vigorously, my m10r freeze once as far as i remember while m11 got few more, a couple times have to pull the battery out but not that it bothers me and just missed one important shoot, quite a great experience.. still will get the m11

just wished the shutter curtain dont fail or bricked at all.. *knock on wood

i always have 2 M digital bodies just in case and a M film during the trip

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[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, jakontil said:

So no more brass from you santos? 🤓😝😝

the bottom plate is made of brass too for the brass version, being battery exempted, kinda plasticky or probably magnesium allow, there’s a technical data sheet i found earlier bout the bottom

 

anyway, went for a 2 weeks holiday and shooting vigorously, my m10r freeze once as far as i remember while m11 got few more, a couple times have to pull the battery out but not that it bothers me and just missed one important shoot, quite a great experience.. still will get the m11

just wished the shutter curtain dont fail or bricked at all.. *knock on wood

i always have 2 M digital bodies just in case and a M film during the trip

Does your M10-R get hot when you use it?
my screen protector would always get undone because of it.

[jakontil]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Does your M10-R get hot when you use it?
my screen protector would always get undone because of it.

hi mate, the m10 r was very normal, i dont use liveview though.. but when i use liveview, say for scanning my negative films, yes it gets warm

on the other hand, there was one occasion when my m11, standby mode disabled, so it's in ready to shoot mode, gets warm and drains the battery to 5% just over an hour or so, but i really love the m11 for being so easy with charging and battery life