Should I trade my M10 for an SL2-S?

[jimleicam3]

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I have owned an M3, M8, and now an M10 for many years.  Two years ago I had cataract surgery on my left eye that now requires me to wear a contact in my right eye.  Unfortunately, with the contact, my close vision is gone without reading glasses.  As a result, I never use my M10 anymore.  Years ago I owned the first SL and used it with my M glass.  Great camera but heavy, and I never got around to buying an SL lenses(cost and size).  I felt it was a waste because I was only using manual focus lenses.  So I traded that in for a Q, which I later traded for a Q2(still own, but not a big fan of the 28 mm view).  So now Leica, for one more week, is having the deal on the SL2-S with a 35 mm.  I am thinking of trading my M10 for the SL2-S.  

I am not a pro, only take pictures for fun, hope to take more now that I have retired.

Please any comments or advice.

Cheers.

[Le Chef]

I thought you could get contact lenses these days that were variofocal and corrected for astigmatism. I would investigate that first before buying or selling camera equipment.

[Budfox]

I thought the SL1 was one of the best cameras I owned - despite the limitations in autofocus etc. However, as you are aware, it was much bigger and more conspicuous than an M or Q, which is why I went back to the M system (and Nikon for SLR style cameras).

If you prefer the M for lightness and like manual focus, you might be better off considering a black M11 with the new EVF which is equivalent to the Q2, and works really well. But of course it will cost more. But if you have a stock of M lenses, might be the better long term option.

[Knipsknecht]

I second @Le Chefin his suggestion. Maybe you could discuss the problem with your Ophthalmologist?! Otherwise, if I got you right, the main problem is wearing eyeglasses while looking through the rangefinder. Is that correct?

Well, if that’s the case, I am very shortsighted and I have to wear glasses all the time. Yes, especially with wider lenses, starting at 35mm, I can’t see the borders of the rectangles in the viewfinder that indicate the borders of the photo to be taken. But this is not a problem to me. It’s just something to get used to.

But if it really diminishes your shooting experience, switching to a SL2 or SL2-S could be a solution. As long as it’s okay for you that these cameras are pretty different from a Leica M.

[T25UFO]

31 minutes ago, jimleicam3 said:

I have owned an M3, M8, and now an M10 for many years.  Two years ago I had cataract surgery on my left eye that now requires me to wear a contact in my right eye.  Unfortunately, with the contact, my close vision is gone without reading glasses.  As a result, I never use my M10 anymore.  Years ago I owned the first SL and used it with my M glass.  Great camera but heavy, and I never got around to buying an SL lenses(cost and size).  I felt it was a waste because I was only using manual focus lenses.  So I traded that in for a Q, which I later traded for a Q2(still own, but not a big fan of the 28 mm view).  So now Leica, for one more week, is having the deal on the SL2-S with a 35 mm.  I am thinking of trading my M10 for the SL2-S.  

I am not a pro, only take pictures for fun, hope to take more now that I have retired.

Please any comments or advice.

Cheers.

The weight (and size) of the SL doesn’t change.  If it wasn’t right before it won’t be right now.

The Q is only a 28mm when you want it to be.  I use mine with the 35mm frame lines most of the time - don’t forget the 0.72 M viewfinder is roughly a 28 view with 35 frame lines.  And you won’t notice any difference in quality when cropping your 42mp Q2 to 35mm  compared to M10 or SL2S.

Maybe wait for the Q3?

[Chris W]

I bought an SL1 and found it bulky, which made me less excited about walking around with it compared to my (now sold Q) or current M240. So I returned the SL.

 

[jdlaing]

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5 hours ago, jimleicam3 said:

I have owned an M3, M8, and now an M10 for many years.  Two years ago I had cataract surgery on my left eye that now requires me to wear a contact in my right eye.  Unfortunately, with the contact, my close vision is gone without reading glasses.  As a result, I never use my M10 anymore.  Years ago I owned the first SL and used it with my M glass.  Great camera but heavy, and I never got around to buying an SL lenses(cost and size).  I felt it was a waste because I was only using manual focus lenses.  So I traded that in for a Q, which I later traded for a Q2(still own, but not a big fan of the 28 mm view).  So now Leica, for one more week, is having the deal on the SL2-S with a 35 mm.  I am thinking of trading my M10 for the SL2-S.  

I am not a pro, only take pictures for fun, hope to take more now that I have retired.

Please any comments or advice.

Cheers.

What is the diopter strength of your reading glasses?

[trickness]

Here's your answer: https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/leica-sl2-s

$266 for a one-week rental of the SL2-S (insurance and shipping are extra). Use it for a week and see if you can live with it.

 

[jimleicam3]

I use a 2.25-2.5 for reading glasses

[jdlaing]

35 minutes ago, jimleicam3 said:

I use a 2.25-2.5 for reading glasses

Head on down to Walgreens, CVS or Walmart with your camera and try on some reading glasses and see if you don’t hit a pair that give you clear vision. Make note of the diopter and get a Leica diopter correction lens that is close. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by jdlaing

[trickness]

M glass on an SL is anything but a “waste”. It’s actually a complete joy using them on the SL, I actually much prefer using M lenses even though the SL glass delivers better image quality 

[High_n_Dry]

Have you tried the diopter inserts on the M10?

https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/m10-diopters

[jimleicam3]

I have tried the diopter and also using my reading glasses.  Unfortunately, the reading glasses are a pain to see the shot, then you need the glasses to focus the shot, then you have to remove the glasses to see the replay.  I guess I would advise to avoid cataract surgery for as long as possible.  I have not tried the Visoflex yet.

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, jimleicam3 said:

I have tried the diopter and also using my reading glasses.  Unfortunately, the reading glasses are a pain to see the shot, then you need the glasses to focus the shot, then you have to remove the glasses to see the replay.  I guess I would advise to avoid cataract surgery for as long as possible.  I have not tried the Visoflex yet.

I’ve had cataracts removed and lens implants in both eyes. I came out with 20/20. No contacts. They gave me mono vision. One eye for reading and one for distance. Reading is okay except for very small print. Then I wear readers. Tough to get readers with different diopters but doable.

Do you have +2.0 or -2.0?

[MaticB]

6 hours ago, jimleicam3 said:

I use a 2.25-2.5 for reading glasses

I use exactly the same dioptry, but in progressive lens. However, I'm used to them and never put them off while focusing. With practicing I find the way all pictures come in focus. 

[KFo]

I use progressive lenses also on m10p.  I did play with contacts but couldn't find a combination that gave as good eyesight as glasses with progressives.  My vision isn't perfect through the viewfinder but I don't let it bother me.

I don't know your experience level with the m and rangefinder patch but  regardless of your vision there are some techniques that are much better than others when it comes to focusing.  The biggest thing is don't hunt for focus.  Bring the image together and shoot no second guessing no hunting.

Focus from the same "direction" all the time.  For me, I always start from infinity.  With Leica glass the focus tab  gives you a clue as to where you are as you dial to the patch.  For  example I know that on my late model glass straight down is  about 1.3-1.7 meters.  Close to the target in other words.  I always take a quick look at the straight down position when I mount a lens as I do also use some archaic glass that tends be further away at the straight down position.  Anyway knowing the position of infinity and 1.7m (or whatever for your glass) gives a big head start focusing.

I often start shooting before I finish focusing on fast moving situations.

This is a very fast method and I don't miss much due to lack of focus.

The last thing I do is sometimes mount a hotshoe finder for the wider lenses like 28 & 35.  I find it easier at times to survey the composition.

I can't help much with respect to chimping.  I only chimp to check exposure in really tricky lighting and for that I use the highlight and shadow indicators so it's a quick glance not a detailed inspection for focus.  

If this is all elementary to you I apologize.

[rich_]

I would definitely give the SL2 a rental or try to see if it’s easier with the ops eyesight challenges. 

[TomB_tx]

I wore glasses full time for 60+  years before having cataract surgery last year. Because of strong astigmatism and near-sightedness I had Toric multifocal lenses implanted which gives very good vision over a wide range, and works fine with my RF and SLR cameras. Their weakness is very close vision in dim light or low-contrast views, such as working on small mechanisms, so I keep generic readers for that. Before I had very good ultra-close vision without glasses, so I miss that, but I'm still pleased with the result. It makes using my old Leica and Canon cameras form the pre-M days much nicer.

Back on topic, I also find the SL2S tempting. Although I love small cameras, I used a Leicaflex SL along with my M4 for decades, and the Leicaflex was a real tank. The SL2S should do well for my Leica R lens collection.

[lencap]

Unfortunately Mother Nature is winning the eyesight battle for me as well.  Cataracts, dry eye, decreased night vision and more are common for me, and in the end I gave up fighting and moved to the SL 601 a few years ago.  Like you I found the SL to be quite a change from the M family, but I did find it was far easier to capture the image I wanted to create.  

My mistake was that I made to drastic a shift when I got the SL 601 along with the Leica 24-90 zoom and a Sigma ART L mount 50mm f/1.4 lens.  The extreme weight/size differences between the SL combo and the M was more than I expected and I regretted my switch after only a few months.  The image quality was outstanding, but the haptics and feel of the larger platform wore me down.  I bought an Apple iPhone 14 Pro, and tried to convince myself that all would be well as a Leica substitute.

The 14 Pro is quite an amazing camera, and computational imaging is certainly interesting, but a small hand held phone isn't a Leica, nor will it ever be regardless of the images it creates.  So, I purchased the new Leica SL2-S combo with the 50mm lens and it will arrive this week.

I made the decision after visiting the dealer and realizing how much lighter and better balanced the SL2-S platform is with a smaller autofocus lens.  Truth be told I had difficulty getting sharp focus on  M lens on the M platform, and autofocus, at least for me, helps me get a very high "keeper" ratio.  And with the M to L adapter I can return to a lightweight lens family if I want to.  

The point for me was simple - aging causes irreversible changes in vision, and despite the best eye surgery available the change is noticeable and permanent.  Instead of fighting it, or moving to another brand entirely, I'm hopeful I'll find a permanent Leica solution in a platform more aligned to my eyesight challenges, and one that has the flexibility to allow me to experience all the lenses that Leica, and most other brands, have produced over a long period of time.

Edited April 24, 2023 by lencap

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[jimleicam3]

Lencap.  Seems as if you and I are in the same boat.  I truly love my M10 and I still own an M3.  But I just want to take photos with ease.  I am pulling the trigger today and sending in my M10.

 

Cheers