Leica Q3 ?

[frame-it]

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Digital Camera - Type no. 6506

just showed up online i guess it could be the Q3?

[Casey Jefferson]

Maybe a non issue for many, if not most others, but finger crossed that the Q3 won't have the purple tint in shadows and sky like they do on the M11's dng (I'm still seeing it from time to time on user posted images). Looking forward to see what Leica will do to the already impressive Q2.

[Le Chef]

3 hours ago, frame-it said:

Digital Camera - Type no. 6506

just showed up online i guess it could be the Q3?

It could equally be the M11M, or the SL3.

[stuny]

Have a look at 

 

[cirke]

no Q3 now ?

[T25UFO]

4 hours ago, cirke said:

no Q3 now ?

As soon as Leica announced the Disney Q2 (which isn't in stores yet) it was clear the Q3 wasn't going to happen at the same time.  Best guess would be September / October.  Maybe expect a dual announcement alongside the SL3, with both cameras having similar upgrades from previous models.

[Le Chef]

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I still think the SL3 is the business priority for Leica, but let’s see.

[darylgo]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

I still think the SL3 is the business priority for Leica, but let’s see.

The L system is getting great attention from Leica, the Q is the gateway.  

[Le Chef]

The SL is a multi-product system whereas the Q is a “one and done” product. 
 

The Q2 by all accounts is still selling well, whereas the SL lags behind its rivals by some way. It has been on special offer for almost 18 months. It’s the weakest line of the three. It’s therefore the one that needs to be replaced soonest.

[darylgo]

34 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The SL is a multi-product system whereas the Q is a “one and done” product. 
 

The Q2 by all accounts is still selling well, whereas the SL lags behind its rivals by some way. It has been on special offer for almost 18 months. It’s the weakest line of the three. It’s therefore the one that needs to be replaced soonest.

It's certainly multifaceted.   The Q being the gateway leads to sales of M and it's lenses if the threads posted on the forum are any indication.  

[Le Chef]

47 minutes ago, darylgo said:

It's certainly multifaceted.   The Q being the gateway leads to sales of M and its lenses if the threads posted on the forum are any indication.  

The idea of a gateway product is false logic for a number of reasons. This forum is a small goldfish bowl that isn’t representative of all Leica owners.
 

You’re missing that some people come into the M line directly and never migrate to other products. Others come directly into the SL and never migrate. And some come into the Q and never migrate. And those sales velocities are not equal.

It’s clearly easier to sell someone on a second product once they’ve become an “insider” but it doesn’t follow they will. Just because someone has one BMW doesn’t mean they will add a second.

And describing a $6k product as a “gateway” is like saying the Submariner is a gateway product for Rolex. For some people it’s the pinnacle.

The business problem is still the SL2 which is being propped by expensive discounts and offers which damage the bottom line and take money away from R&D investment for next generation products.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Le Chef

[darylgo]

It would be informative to talk to a Leica store and get their opinion.  

Re: R&D and Leica business, I am hearing phenomenal sales at the dealer.  

[Le Chef]

Opinions are opinions not facts, and no dealer worth their salt is going to give you a true picture a) because it’s not in their interest and b) it’s not in the interest of Leica.

The facts are that Leica has been discounting the SL for 18 months and that tells you there’s a problem with slow sales likely caused by uncompetitive specs (check vs Sony) and therefore the perception that it’s overpriced. It’s a pretty standard marketing and sales dilemma.

I suspect, but don’t know, that the Q2 in both variants + a few leftover Reporters, continues to sell reasonably well. So why replace it if you can keep selling what’s produced and at full price?

[bobtodrick]

1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Opinions are opinions not facts, and no dealer worth their salt is going to give you a true picture a) because it’s not in their interest and b) it’s not in the interest of Leica.

The facts are that Leica has been discounting the SL for 18 months and that tells you there’s a problem with slow sales likely caused by uncompetitive specs (check vs Sony) and therefore the perception that it’s overpriced. It’s a pretty standard marketing and sales dilemma.

I suspect, but don’t know, that the Q2 in both variants + a few leftover Reporters, continues to sell reasonably well. So why replace it if you can keep selling what’s produced and at full price?

I think you are correct.

The Q (in all its incarnations) and the M sell well.  IMO that is because they are excellent cameras for the documentary (M) photographer or the well off world traveller or hobbyist (Q and M).

But the SL2 is, again IMO) aimed at the pro photographer.  And to a working pro it becomes a cost/benefit scenario.  A top of the line Sony/Canon/Nikon has as good or better performance any 1/2 the price and with a more extensive lens line.

The working pro finds it pretty hard to justify the cost of the red dot.

[thierry40]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:38 PM, T25UFO said:

As soon as Leica announced the Disney Q2 (which isn't in stores yet) it was clear the Q3 wasn't going to happen at the same time.  Best guess would be September / October.  Maybe expect a dual announcement alongside the SL3, with both cameras having similar upgrades from previous models.

the reasoning on the Q2 makes sense although Leica seems to be piling the limited editions Q2 recently (take the R aside which seems to be a product on its own ... maybe) with mild cosmetic only changes (I am not saying they are not attractive). Could that be a way to accelerate sales / get rid of the Q2 manufactured parts stocks (cases, lenses...) at a decent price with a minor RND development cost, a mere paint scheme (again maybe even attractive)?

If the Q3 is ready as per spyshots here and there it has a financial cost not to put it in production probably.

anyhow no one is going to tell us before it comes out  

Porsche also takes out special 911 editions before jumping into a new model, I have been a regular customer and the sales (and tech.) guys would be systematically denying same tille last moment (even in front of journalists evident spyshots). A friend head mechanical for a European country was even denied to look at a 4 Cylinder engine he had spotted at the plant. The engine was immediately covered. It was months only before the news of the flat 4 was announced for Cayman/Boxters.

I believe dealers are genuinely kept away from the news till almost last moment. It is logical.

so we wait and have fun with our Q2 in the meantime     

 

best

Thierry 

[bobtodrick]

7 minutes ago, thierry40 said:

the reasoning on the Q2 makes sense although Leica seems to be piling the limited editions Q2 recently (take the R aside which seems to be a product on its own ... maybe) with mild cosmetic only changes (I am not saying they are not attractive). Could that be a way to accelerate sales / get rid of the Q2 manufactured parts stocks (cases, lenses...) at a decent price with a minor RND development cost, a mere paint scheme (again maybe even attractive)?

If the Q3 is ready as per spyshots here and there it has a financial cost not to put it in production probably.

anyhow no one is going to tell us before it comes out  

Porsche also takes out special 911 editions before jumping into a new model, I have been a regular customer and the sales (and tech.) guys would be systematically denying same tille last moment (even in front of journalists evident spyshots). A friend head mechanical for a European country was even denied to look at a 4 Cylinder engine he had spotted at the plant. The engine was immediately covered. It was months only before the news of the flat 4 was announced for Cayman/Boxters.

I believe dealers are genuinely kept away from the news till almost last moment. It is logical.

so we wait and have fun with our Q2 in the meantime     

 

best

Thierry 

You are about about dealers (I are one 😂).

All the manufactures reps sign agreements that if they leak info on a product before the company wants the info made public they will be terminated.

I have had a rep tell me that he has no idea if or when a rumoured product is going to be released…only to call me two days later to confirm the release along with exactly when the item will be in our shop.  And of course he had all that info previously.

Edited April 15, 2023 by bobtodrick

[LocalHero1953]

22 hours ago, Le Chef said:

The business problem is still the SL2 which is being propped by expensive discounts and offers which damage the bottom line and take money away from R&D investment for next generation products.

 

19 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Opinions are opinions not facts, 

I totally agree. Prices and discounts tell us nothing about actual sales, margins or return on investment, let alone whether money is being taken away from other investment.

Edited April 15, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[bobtodrick]

But I guess it has already been this way.

In the years prior to digital, the M cameras always outsold the R.  It was as though the R (and I had a complete R3 kit at one time) was an afterthought...Leica had to have an SLR, but it never really promoted it or supported it like they did the M.

I guess things really haven't changed.

[Le Chef]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 

I totally agree. Prices and discounts tell us nothing about actual sales, margins or return on investment, let alone whether money is being taken away from other investment.

I would disagree. Having spent 40 years dealing with these issues on a day to day basis, you get to recognize the signs of distress.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Daniel C.1975]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Le Chef:

I would disagree. Having spent 40 years dealing with these issues on a day to day basis, you get to recognize the signs of distress.

+1, mostly or to a certain point. Being also responsible for Product Management (but not being product manager myself) in my BU (not in the camera business, and not in a comparable business, so my view might not fit at all ), normally no one is giving away revenue without a reason, which is not the same as "a need" (lower price, discounts or discounted bundles, ... ).

It does not always mean it's a desperate move. As for example, it could just mean that you want penetrate a market or push out a part of the competition, or just having the larger and better filled war chest and you want to damage the competition, and, and, and... 

One thing is for sure, you are not doing these things to support your customer or make their life easier  

 

Being a SL2s user myself, I still would say that the SL-Line is not the biggest success (while my opinion is, that it is an utterly brilliant camera) and in view of the competition even less so (just comparing feature vs. price, what many do, for the good or the bad). So yes, I can imagine that they want to get rid of old stock before coming with something new, or before they are so outdated that the pressure to reduce the prices even more is higher than now. However, I for sure see no doomsday or reason to be unsettled. Financial wise Leica is currently very successful. 

 

But, that's all some wild speculations. We all do not know what Leica is up to and what they think. 

Just looked up the statistics on this forum: 193k posts in the international SL-Forum area, but only 71k posts in the Q-Forum. So maybe we are all wrong in all aspects  (820k post in the international M-Forum area - just for reference) 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Daniel C.1975