M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Tailwagger]

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18 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I got a freeze today in LV and Prospective Control. No big deal.

Interesting.  I recall early days with the 10-R encountering a lot of freezes when PC was enabled. While I use the numbers on occasion, I haven't enabled the display since. Lines bouncing around always drove me a little crazy anyway.  I did post a month or so ago about an odd freeze I encountered where the level froze.  Given they rely on the same underlying hardware, perhaps the issues are related in some way.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, Qlan said:

Sorry to report that I got a freeze this morning. Same behavior as before. It happened at startup, no metering info in the viewfinder but frame lines are illuminated. Pressing the shutter does nothing. But can click on menu and navigate. Going into live view shows a black screen (but with capture assistants on) and completely freezes the camera. Of course 1.6.1 and I also saved my profile (that I don't really use) again after updating.

3 hours ago, Shavou said:

Same here. Updated to 1.6.1 this morning and right after the update I got a freeze up. Differente to what I used to get before though. I got stuck in the menu settings which was responsive but I couldn’t go back to the shooting mode. 
 

it sucks Leica, it sucks !!!

Have either of you done a full reset yet after the update? Delete all profiles, settings, etc.?

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Warton said:

...With the cap on lens I turned on camera and then immediately pressed play button to view a picture, camera froze up...

Don't do that.

[Warton]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Don't do that.

I stopped doing that with 1.6.0 firmware because I could pretty much provoke the lockup every time doing that.

Today I did that on purpose to test 1.6.1 and it seems this scenario has not caught Leica’: attention.

so I will stop doing that again

Edited March 4, 2023 by Warton

[DadDadDaddyo]

Hurrying is exactly how I've gotten the few freezes I've ever experienced (a couple of times with the M10M, exactly once with the M11 (and now I think about it, at least once with the SL2)).

Switched on the camera (index finger) and in almost the same move, jabbed the Play button (thumb). Didn't even notice whether the red light was on or off. Screen went black, red light was on, camera was unresponsive.

A battery pull solved it. At least now I don't have to remove the camera from the leather half case and then remove the base plate from the camera to pull the battery! Tradition is great, but so is striking a reasonable accommodation with progress. 

But most of all, I remind myself to slow down just a bit. Pushing it is like performing a crash gear shift (moving the gear shift in a single violent move, say, from 2nd to 3rd, or worse, from 3rd to 2nd, even before the clutch pedal is all the way to the floor).

Ever since I started using Leicas in the 1960s, the manuals all said not to try to force anything on the camera. Sage words.

I remember once reading advice from a European race car driver about gear shifting. He commented that many inexperienced racing drivers are too rough with the machine, showing no feel for it. They mash and jam the gear selector around, heedless of the underlying mechanisms and processes.

He said to grip the gear shift lever like an uncooked egg, to perform each shift in two gentle moves, from one gear into neutral, and then from neutral into the next gear. Even while racing. Do that he said, and your transmission will reward your demonstration of understanding with smooth, effortless, trouble-free performance. 

After reading that I tried it. I started treating the machine better and my driving improved, because I began to understand better the connection between my control inputs and the underlying mechanisms and process at play. Way better that way. 

 

[Qlan]

My freezes have nothing to do with hurrying. I just turn on the camera and the light meter information doesn't show up and I cannot take a picture. I don't push on any button, or have live view on. And it happened on two different cameras. Unless I'm the unluckiest person on Earth, or there is a software/hardware issue. Both were produced/packaged around August 2022.

[hjddd]

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Every time I put the Len Detection to OFF, turn off the  camera , then turn it on, the LD comes back to AUTOMATIC

it really bothers me 

the new firmware still no resolved 

[Qlan]

1 minute ago, hjddd said:

Every time I put the Len Detection to OFF, turn off the  camera , then turn it on, the LD comes back to AUTOMATIC

it really bothers me 

the new firmware still no resolved 

This is not a bug but a product decision. (I agree with you though). 

[Warton]

58 minutes ago, Qlan said:

My freezes have nothing to do with hurrying. I just turn on the camera and the light meter information doesn't show up and I cannot take a picture. I don't push on any button, or have live view on. And it happened on two different cameras. Unless I'm the unluckiest person on Earth, or there is a software/hardware issue. Both were produced/packaged around August 2022.

This is really puzzling me. With 1.6.1 you still have the same issue?

[Qlan]

Just now, Warton said:

This is really puzzling me. With 1.6.1 you still have the same issue?

Same issue with 1.5.0.1, 1.6.0 and 1.6.1 on 2 cameras (first camera exchanged while on 1.6.0). You can see my posts here, I tried everything. I'm in the process of exchanging this second M11, so maayyyybe the next one will be good.

[jakontil]

10 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Hurrying is exactly how I've gotten the few freezes I've ever experienced (a couple of times with the M10M, exactly once with the M11 (and now I think about it, at least once with the SL2)).

Switched on the camera (index finger) and in almost the same move, jabbed the Play button (thumb). Didn't even notice whether the red light was on or off. Screen went black, red light was on, camera was unresponsive.

A battery pull solved it. At least now I don't have to remove the camera from the leather half case and then remove the base plate from the camera to pull the battery! Tradition is great, but so is striking a reasonable accommodation with progress. 

But most of all, I remind myself to slow down just a bit. Pushing it is like performing a crash gear shift (moving the gear shift in a single violent move, say, from 2nd to 3rd, or worse, from 3rd to 2nd, even before the clutch pedal is all the way to the floor).

Ever since I started using Leicas in the 1960s, the manuals all said not to try to force anything on the camera. Sage words.

I remember once reading advice from a European race car driver about gear shifting. He commented that many inexperienced racing drivers are too rough with the machine, showing no feel for it. They mash and jam the gear selector around, heedless of the underlying mechanisms and processes.

He said to grip the gear shift lever like an uncooked egg, to perform each shift in two gentle moves, from one gear into neutral, and then from neutral into the next gear. Even while racing. Do that he said, and your transmission will reward your demonstration of understanding with smooth, effortless, trouble-free performance. 

After reading that I tried it. I started treating the machine better and my driving improved, because I began to understand better the connection between my control inputs and the underlying mechanisms and process at play. Way better that way. 

 

i have a freeze prior to 1.6.1 in this scenario, but it was not a habit im used to, as long as i slow down and take my time, the m11 have been great

[lct]

I don't have to slow down at all personally as FW 1.6.1 works perfectly for me so far but i only use UHS1 and UHS2 Sandisk cards. I feel sorry for colleagues having still issues with their M11 but the only solution i can suggest them is to require a refund or a replacement of their faulty body i'm afraid.

[malko]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb lct:

I don't have to slow down at all personally as FW 1.6.1 works perfectly for me so far but i only use UHS1 and UHS2 Sandisk cards. I feel sorry for colleagues having still issues with their M11 but the only solution i can suggest them is to require a refund or a replacement of their faulty body i'm afraid.

I had SanDisk cards with 1.6 and the camera kept freezing. It was definitely not a card issue. I switched to Kingston Canvas react plus cards (needed something faster with more capacity) with no change. However, no freezes anymore since 1.6.1 in any case, fortunately (at least not so far, keeping my fingers crossed)

[lct]

1 hour ago, malko said:

I had SanDisk cards with 1.6 and the camera kept freezing. It was definitely not a card issue. I switched to Kingston Canvas react plus cards (needed something faster with more capacity) with no change. However, no freezes anymore since 1.6.1 in any case, fortunately (at least not so far, keeping my fingers crossed)

Freezes were apparently a card issue for me before FW 1.6. A Sony Tough card almost bricked my M11 and UHS2 Sandisk cards did cause freezes on it. I fixed the problem by using Sandisk UHS1 cards exclusively. Under FW 1.6, i could use both UHS1 and UHS2 Sandisk cards but Sony Tough cards were still an issue. I seem to recall a LUF member stating that Sony Tough cards can now work flawlessly under FW 1.6.1. I would not take the risk to use faster cards than my Sandisk personally but it's just me. BTW it would be interesting to know if people having still freeze problems are using fast cards under FW 1.6.1. 

[Photoworks]

25 minutes ago, lct said:

Freezes were apparently a card issue for me before FW 1.6. A Sony Tough card almost bricked my M11 and UHS2 Sandisk cards did cause freezes on it. I fixed the problem by using Sandisk UHS1 cards exclusively. Under FW 1.6, i could use both UHS1 and UHS2 Sandisk cards but Sony Tough cards were still an issue. I seem to recall a LUF member stating that Sony Tough cards can now work flawlessly under FW 1.6.1. I would not take the risk to use faster cards than my Sandisk personally but it's just me. BTW it would be interesting to know if people having still freeze problems are using fast cards under FW 1.6.1. 

you should mention witch card you use!

[hdmesa]

Still waiting on those who say it's still freezing to perform a full reset and report back.

[Qlan]

33 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Still waiting on those who say it's still freezing to perform a full reset and report back.

Just did, will update if I get other freezes or not. Note that I don't go out and shoot very often but when I do, I have 3-4 freezes in a day (I turn the camera on/off a lot and change lenses frequently). At home, I just turn it on/off a couple of times a day. I am not testing it at home extensively.

[mosh1]

23 hours ago, Warton said:

I got freeze up too with 161 firmware but kind of same scenario that triggered freeze up before with 160 firmware.

With the cap on lens I turned on camera and then immediately pressed play button to view a picture, camera froze up with a dark screen but a perspective control icon displayed. That was the icon that when you view a picture taken by live view and perspective control on. I never take pictures in LV and/or perspective control.

when it froze all the buttons were no responsive, turning off the camera makes the shutter closed but the orange light was on for a while. Then I popped out the battery and pop it back in. Everything went back to normal.

I triggered this kind of lock up twice with same scenario.

this is the same scenario I could provoke the freeze up with 160 almost 100% times: with cap on lens turning on the camera and going to playback mode immediately.

My guess is that cap on lens confused metering system and somehow viewing a picture from SD card at that time triggers some sort of lockup.

it’s not really a big deal to me as I avoided doing that before. Today I wanted to test with 161 firmware so I intentionally did that. But it seems it’s not fixed and we may have to wait for 170?

As long as I avoid doing that, the camera is flawless.

Maybe Leica wants me always keep lens cap off and take everything slow?

 

Since you mention this is near 100% reproducible I hope you send Leica an email on this. Nothing better for a software engineer than a bug report where there are steps to reproduce 100%.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I had one freeze with 16.1 this morning.  Power on, and the shutter stayed closed. Buttons were unresponsive. Switched  power recycle fixed it.  Didn't reoccur.

Edited March 5, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

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[Warton]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I had one freeze with 16.1 this morning.  Power on, and the shutter stayed closed. Buttons were unresponsive. Switched  power recycle fixed it.  Didn't reoccur.

I did send them an email a couple of months ago describing the scenario to provoke the freeze when the camera was still with 1.6.0 firmware. They replied they would look into it.

And with 1.6.1 it still happens and I sent an email to them again yesterday and yet have received any acknowledgment 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Warton