M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[jaapv]

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In my experience with the M8 and C1 it sufficed to make one reference shot wide open and one two stops down.  After that it is a one-click correction. I seem to recall that the LR plug-in does not use reference shots.-but may be wrong there, not being a LR user. 

[Photoworks]

11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

In my experience with the M8 and C1 it sufficed to make one reference shot wide open and one two stops down.  After that it is a one-click correction. I seem to recall that the LR plug-in does not use reference shots.-but may be wrong there, not being a LR user. 

Not everyone has a LCC plate, and on top of it has to sit sealed like a filter on the lens, this is not alway possible with wide angle lenses as the glass protrudes out.

I use LCC often on my architectual shots, some lens correction don't work on shift lenses.
The other good use I have found is the digitization of film, and clean out all the lens direct during the scan and avouid doubling vignetting.

the color cast , color shift, problem is most evident with wide-angle lenses on tecnical cameras and rangefinder where the rear element is closer to the sensor. the color cast can be of different color, magenta blue on one side and green on the other and it effect is usually caused by light rays  from outer image incident stricking the sensor.
For this reason it is important to get the LCC referance image in the same lighting condition and under same exposure setting.

Lightroom Flat field is similar then C1, in my experiance it often over correcred in my experience, and there is only on or off for it.

C1 has uniformity slider.

Most people give relevant information here. if you like to lean more what it means here is a link to Reides article https://www.reidreviews.com/examples/flatfieldnew.html

 

 

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

It is indeed something different. M cameras, when you apply an in-camera profile, they BAKE IN vignetting and edge color shift correction. They do not bake in distortion correction. Test it yourself with a lens that has heavy vignetting at f/1.4 to which Leica would apply corrections – like the 28 Lux. Take a shot with Lens Detection off and one with it on and the 28 Lux profile selected. Open up the DNGs in LR or C1. You will see the one with the profile has less vignetting and you will not be able to turn that off in LR or C1. It's baked in. No third party DNG cleaner can strip it out, either, because it's not in there as instructions, it's done in the pipeline before the DNG is written.

I agree

on top of that if you try to correct the image without Lens profile to match the image Leica lens profile on you will find it challenging to match the images in post with current ajustment in LrC. The leica profile always look more natural, even if the correction is modest and still has some light falloff.

 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

As is colour shift creation   Actually it is quite easy to remove edge colour shift using flat field correction. 

In my book, flat field correction is complicated:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/flat-field-correction.html

[hdmesa]

49 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I agree

on top of that if you try to correct the image without Lens profile to match the image Leica lens profile on you will find it challenging to match the images in post with current ajustment in LrC. The leica profile always look more natural, even if the correction is modest and still has some light falloff.

 

Yeah, the corrections from Leica are very good, and if you're ok with them, that's the way to go. I go back and forth sometimes. Some lenses that heavily vignette on the M10M like the 28 Lux, I would use a profile for them when shooting wide open. Why? Because the vignetting was sometimes so strong wide open, the dark edges of the frame with a bright area in the center would cause the meter to give irregular and sometimes incorrect readings. Vignetting seems like much less of a problem on the M11, and with the meter being in live view all the time also helps. So with the M11, I feel more free to not use the profile. When would I not use the profile? Whenever I want vignetting for artistic purposes. The optical vignetting is always more natural and less invasive than vignetting applied in post. So bottom line is choose the method that gives the most natural results based on the intended outcome.

For third party lenses like Voigtlander, sometimes I'll use a Leica profile if it helps correct for something that's difficult to correct for in post. An example would be using the CV 50 f/2 APO on the SL2-S where it can have a slight edge color shift that is noticeable with deep blue skies. Using the Leica 50 APO profile seems to help correct for that. I guess either the Leica 50 APO must have a similar issue with edge color shift on the SL2-S – or by removing some of the vignetting before the DNG is written, it reduces the edge color shift of the CV lens inadvertently.

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Not everyone has a LCC plate, and on top of it has to sit sealed like a filter on the lens, this is not alway possible with wide angle lenses as the glass protrudes out.

I use LCC often on my architectual shots, some lens correction don't work on shift lenses.
The other good use I have found is the digitization of film, and clean out all the lens direct during the scan and avouid doubling vignetting.

the color cast , color shift, problem is most evident with wide-angle lenses on tecnical cameras and rangefinder where the rear element is closer to the sensor. the color cast can be of different color, magenta blue on one side and green on the other and it effect is usually caused by light rays  from outer image incident stricking the sensor.
For this reason it is important to get the LCC referance image in the same lighting condition and under same exposure setting.

Lightroom Flat field is similar then C1, in my experiance it often over correcred in my experience, and there is only on or off for it.

C1 has uniformity slider.

Most people give relevant information here. if you like to lean more what it means here is a link to Reides article https://www.reidreviews.com/examples/flatfieldnew.html

 

 

Nobody needs an LCC plate. Just photograph a grey sky through a sheet of printing paper. People are totally overcomplicating things. In my experience the C1 tool is the simplest thing in the world to use.  As I said, I have no experience with th LR tool as LR is a program  that I utterly dislike and use as little as possible  Lens correction in Photoshop gives you complete control over simple vignetting without colour shift, both intensity and radius; any increased noise disappears wit Topaz Photo AI.  Optical vignetting does not need LCC at all with present-day postprocessing   

 

[Photoworks]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Optical vignetting does not need LCC at all with present-day postprocessing   

not sure what you are saying?

I have been doing reproduction of art the last few months ofpaintingd and drawings for an archive, having a precise correction is beneficial.

Some vignetting is not totally eliminated in capture one slider either .

[jaapv]

That is exactly what I mean - for such work precise correction is indeed essential.

I was saying that  Photoshop --> filters --> lens correction --> custom leads to a vignetting correction tool that not only has a slider for the intensity of the vignetting but also for the radius of the vignette. Whether that is precise enough for your specialized need I do not know, but it might be worth a try.   As vignette correction in post enhances noise, modern AI tools (for this application I prefer Topaz Photo AI) will clear up noise locally.

[brandall]

I’m new to this forum and find the subject info helpful. I find that having notifications on for: M11 freeze issues [Merged] is great. Unfortunately I’m alerted to dozens of posts that have nothing to do with merged subject. Is this the place to post all things M11 that spin off from the freeze issues?

On the freezing issue, I’m two months in with the M11 and have operator error freezes only. Like taking a pic with the lens cap on and assuming a freeze, drop the battery while camera is applying noise reduction.
Loving the camera but this forum seems off track. It is ultimately helpful if you can filter the unrelated content. 
 

Edited February 27, 2023 by brandall
Bad sentence.

[Photoworks]

15 minutes ago, brandall said:

I’m new to this forum and find the subject info helpful. I find that having notifications on for: M11 freeze issues [Merged] is great. Unfortunately I’m alerted to dozens of posts that have nothing to do with merged subject. Is this the place to post all things M11 that spin off from the freeze issues?

On the freezing issue, I’m two months in with the M11 and have operator error freezes only. Like taking a pic with the lens cap on and assuming a freeze, drop the battery while camera is applying noise reduction.
Loving the camera but this forum seems off track. It is ultimately helpful if you can filter the unrelated content. 
 

you are correct, sorry. but you are in the right place.

not sure if the moderator can mode the section out.

 

[hoedid]

My Leica dealership just informed me that 1.6.1 will be available tomorrow 02.03 and it will also include a freezing bug issue changelog. 

[M11 for me]

1.6.1 is the solution to 1'241 posts of misery.

[Qlan]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

1.6.1 is the solution to 1'241 posts of misery.

I wouldn’t be so quick. 1.6.0 also fixed some freeze issues. Doesn’t mean all of them are fixed, but I really hope that’s the case. 

[Jeff S]

Supposedly fixes freezing, overexposure and other issues…

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2023/03/leica-m11-firmware-v1-6-1-fixes-freezing-issue/
 

Jeff

[M11 for me]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb Qlan:

all of them are fixed

Correct 😇

[Jewl]

No worries, there will be some left overs in the fridge so that this thread will survive 😉 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Jewl

[Qlan]

Sorry to report that I got a freeze this morning. Same behavior as before. It happened at startup, no metering info in the viewfinder but frame lines are illuminated. Pressing the shutter does nothing. But can click on menu and navigate. Going into live view shows a black screen (but with capture assistants on) and completely freezes the camera. Of course 1.6.1 and I also saved my profile (that I don't really use) again after updating.

[Shavou]

2 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Sorry to report that I got a freeze this morning. Same behavior as before. It happened at startup, no metering info in the viewfinder but frame lines are illuminated. Pressing the shutter does nothing. But can click on menu and navigate. Going into live view shows a black screen (but with capture assistants on) and completely freezes the camera. Of course 1.6.1 and I also saved my profile (that I don't really use) again after updating.

Same here. Updated to 1.6.1 this morning and right after the update I got a freeze up. Differente to what I used to get before though. I got stuck in the menu settings which was responsive but I couldn’t go back to the shooting mode. 
 

it sucks Leica, it sucks !!!

[Warton]

I got freeze up too with 161 firmware but kind of same scenario that triggered freeze up before with 160 firmware.

With the cap on lens I turned on camera and then immediately pressed play button to view a picture, camera froze up with a dark screen but a perspective control icon displayed. That was the icon that when you view a picture taken by live view and perspective control on. I never take pictures in LV and/or perspective control.

when it froze all the buttons were no responsive, turning off the camera makes the shutter closed but the orange light was on for a while. Then I popped out the battery and pop it back in. Everything went back to normal.

I triggered this kind of lock up twice with same scenario.

this is the same scenario I could provoke the freeze up with 160 almost 100% times: with cap on lens turning on the camera and going to playback mode immediately.

My guess is that cap on lens confused metering system and somehow viewing a picture from SD card at that time triggers some sort of lockup.

it’s not really a big deal to me as I avoided doing that before. Today I wanted to test with 161 firmware so I intentionally did that. But it seems it’s not fixed and we may have to wait for 170?

As long as I avoid doing that, the camera is flawless.

Maybe Leica wants me always keep lens cap off and take everything slow?

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[Photoworks]

10 minutes ago, Warton said:

I got freeze up too with 161 firmware but kind of same scenario that triggered freeze up before with 160 firmware.

With the cap on lens I turned on camera and then immediately pressed play button to view a picture, camera froze up with a dark screen but a perspective control icon displayed. That was the icon that when you view a picture taken by live view and perspective control on. I never take pictures in LV and/or perspective control.

when it froze all the buttons were no responsive, turning off the camera makes the shutter closed but the orange light was on for a while. Then I popped out the battery and pop it back in. Everything went back to normal.

I triggered this kind of lock up twice with same scenario.

this is the same scenario I could provoke the freeze up with 160 almost 100% times: with cap on lens turning on the camera and going to playback mode immediately.

My guess is that cap on lens confused metering system and somehow viewing a picture from SD card at that time triggers some sort of lockup.

it’s not really a big deal to me as I avoided doing that before. Today I wanted to test with 161 firmware so I intentionally did that. But it seems it’s not fixed and we may have to wait for 170?

As long as I avoid doing that, the camera is flawless.

Maybe Leica wants me always keep lens cap off and take everything slow?

does anyone really uses the lens cups? Are you one of those guys that shoot with lens cup on?

I got a freeze today in LV and Prospective Control. No big deal.