M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[gotium]

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3 hours ago, lldd said:

I ran into a Leica rep at Glazer's camera in Seattle, who was there to demo the SL3.  I asked about M11 issues, and without missing a beat she said they were mostly resolved and they only impacted a very small number of users.  I mentioned this thread and she responded that only those with issues post, etc.  Not impressed.  Handed the M11 back to the salesperson, as she convinced me with her responses not to buy the camera. 

I agree. My understanding is that M11s freeze. Certainly mine did when I owned one and I just got used to popping the battery out. Never submitted any reports because it seems to be normal and expected for this camera. 

It's certainly making me hold off getting another M11-line camera, for example the monochrom or a possible M11-D. Without a screen it would be even harder to deal with. And if they have no plans to fix it as this rep suggests....

Edited March 13, 2024 by gotium

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[jjesp]

Today I visited the local Leica Store. As I understood it, Leica is aware of the problem. Right now they are looking into specific problems with one of the internal electric boards from a given batch. That would explain why not all owners have the freezing issue. I of course can't confirm if this is true, but just what I heard... But if it is the case, no firmware update can fix it...

[RMF]

 

1 hour ago, jjesp said:

Today I visited the local Leica Store. As I understood it, Leica is aware of the problem. Right now they are looking into specific problems with one of the internal electric boards from a given batch. That would explain why not all owners have the freezing issue. I of course can't confirm if this is true, but just what I heard... But if it is the case, no firmware update can fix it...

Thanks for the rumored intel. If that is the case with a batch of bad boards, this could really bad and unfortunate news as reading many of the reports of crashes on the forum, it’s happened to all the variations (M11, M11p, M11m) throughout its 2 year lifespan which means that it might not be that simple to single out a single batch for …yikes..a recall.

[elmars]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb lldd:

I mentioned this thread and she responded that only those with issues post, etc.  Not impressed.

Many dealers behave like this, whether they are selling Leica or something else. Problems are denied or minimised. This has always annoyed me and I don't buy from such shops. Thank goodness there are other dealers who deal with problems openly, including Leica.

I know that the freeze problem is now a very high priority at Leica, after not being taken seriously for too long. Unfortunately, I don't know what that means in terms of time.

[Derbyshire Man]

9 hours ago, jjesp said:

Today I visited the local Leica Store. As I understood it, Leica is aware of the problem. Right now they are looking into specific problems with one of the internal electric boards from a given batch. That would explain why not all owners have the freezing issue. I of course can't confirm if this is true, but just what I heard... But if it is the case, no firmware update can fix it...

I can't believe that is the cause as those with issues go right from early cameras to people (like me) with M11-P. For a company trying to sell an expensive, top of the range camera, while trying to maintain the image (and income) of being a luxury brand, this is a real issue that must be taken seriously and at pace.

However, I can fully understand why a single rep will have been told (or decided) to play things down.

[Smogg]

I don’t understand why it can’t be given the opportunity for those who want to return to firmware 1.6.1. Firmware 1.6.1 at least did not damage files, there were only problems with freezing

[Henners]

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If it is a board issue hopefully there will be a recall and board replacement for affected cameras.

[jjesp]

6 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I can't believe that is the cause as those with issues go right from early cameras to people (like me) with M11-P. For a company trying to sell an expensive, top of the range camera, while trying to maintain the image (and income) of being a luxury brand, this is a real issue that must be taken seriously and at pace.

However, I can fully understand why a single rep will have been told (or decided) to play things down.

Of course, and they are likely looking into many other things. So let's hope it just is a firmware problem. But personally I think it is a hardware problem. They had the same problem with the old Q. They never fixed it though.

[Mateusz]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:41 PM, Smogg said:

It would be great if the problem reached the level of leading reviewers and they wrote articles on this topic. This may encourage Leica to make a statement and/or become more involved in solving the problem.

That's the biggest problem with YouTube reviews and a trap lots of us fall into... people who don't use these cameras daily, or are not even professional photographers (at least in a sense that they don't support themselves by primarily earning money from working with photo clients) - they create these "impressions" of camera gear that influence buyer's choices... and then things like that happen and none of them address them - first of all because all of the reviews tend to be either super positive or still lean towards the positive side out of fear of not being blacklisted from future product releases. They won't make a separate video about problems of these cameras because they do not OWN them and don't use them daily. 

Imagine though if all of these "influencers" and "reviewers" would all of a sudden make a video about M11 problems... we would get a fix within a week lol

[Peterschu]

Vielleicht liegt die Ursache für den Freeze gar nicht bei Leica ?

Viele der Beiträge hier beschreiben, daß der Freeze auftritt bei der Benutzung einer SanDisk Extreme PRO SDHC UHS-II Speicherkarte V90 128 GB  oder 64GB.

Ein Fotografenkollege beschreibt, daß er noch nie Probleme mit seiner M11 und Freezes hatte mit einer Sony SF-G64T SD-Speicherkarte (64 GB, UHS-II, SD Tough, G Serie)

Ich hatte die 64 und die 128GB Version sowohl in der M11 mit den Freezes, als auch in meiner Fuji GFX100s. In der Fuji wurde die Karte sporadisch nicht erkannt, manchmal klappte es wieder nach Ein- und Ausschalten, manchmal einfach nach Herausnahme und Wiedereinsetzen der Karte, manchmal musste sie mit dem SD Formatter und dann in der Kamera neu formatiert werden.

Die 64GB Version habe ich bereits im Oktober 23 umgetauscht, seitdem keine Probleme mehr mit dieser Karte.

Jetzt hat die Sandisk 128GB kurz vor einem Fototermin gemuckt, die habe ich reklamiert/zurückgeschickt und mir eine Sony Touch vom oben beschriebenen Typ bestellt.

Im Normalbetrieb leuchtet die hintere Status-LED bei 60MP Bildern 1 bis max 2sec rot, bis die Daten vom Sensor auf die Karte geschrieben sind.

Zur Erinnerung: Bei "Meinen" Freezes leuchtet die rote Status-LED permanent bis zum Ausschalten der Kamera, oder, wenn Ausschalten nicht möglich, bis zur Herausnahme des Akkus.

 

[lct]

4 minutes ago, Peterschu said:

[...] Viele der Beiträge hier beschreiben, daß der Freeze auftritt bei der Benutzung einer SanDisk Extreme PRO SDHC UHS-II Speicherkarte V90 128 GB  oder 64GB.
Ein Fotografenkollege beschreibt, daß er noch nie Probleme mit seiner M11 und Freezes hatte mit einer Sony SF-G64T SD-Speicherkarte (64 GB, UHS-II, SD Tough, G Serie) [...]

I never got the least problem with my UHS2 Sandisk 64gb card since firmware 1.6.1. As for the Sony Tough 64gb it caused freezes 2 years ago but works perfectly under firmware 2.0.2 now. JFI.

[Smogg]

1 hour ago, Peterschu said:

Vielleicht liegt die Ursache für den Freeze gar nicht bei Leica ?

Viele der Beiträge hier beschreiben, daß der Freeze auftritt bei der Benutzung einer SanDisk Extreme PRO SDHC UHS-II Speicherkarte V90 128 GB  oder 64GB.

Ein Fotografenkollege beschreibt, daß er noch nie Probleme mit seiner M11 und Freezes hatte mit einer Sony SF-G64T SD-Speicherkarte (64 GB, UHS-II, SD Tough, G Serie)

Ich hatte die 64 und die 128GB Version sowohl in der M11 mit den Freezes, als auch in meiner Fuji GFX100s. In der Fuji wurde die Karte sporadisch nicht erkannt, manchmal klappte es wieder nach Ein- und Ausschalten, manchmal einfach nach Herausnahme und Wiedereinsetzen der Karte, manchmal musste sie mit dem SD Formatter und dann in der Kamera neu formatiert werden.

Die 64GB Version habe ich bereits im Oktober 23 umgetauscht, seitdem keine Probleme mehr mit dieser Karte.

Jetzt hat die Sandisk 128GB kurz vor einem Fototermin gemuckt, die habe ich reklamiert/zurückgeschickt und mir eine Sony Touch vom oben beschriebenen Typ bestellt.

Im Normalbetrieb leuchtet die hintere Status-LED bei 60MP Bildern 1 bis max 2sec rot, bis die Daten vom Sensor auf die Karte geschrieben sind.

Zur Erinnerung: Bei "Meinen" Freezes leuchtet die rote Status-LED permanent bis zum Ausschalten der Kamera, oder, wenn Ausschalten nicht möglich, bis zur Herausnahme des Akkus.

 

Freezes even when using built-in memory, without any SD card

[Smogg]

Moreover: the M11 regularly freezes even if you didn’t take a single picture, but just turned it on, looked in rear liveview screen, focused and changed your mind about shooting and turned it off. After this, it is not at all a fact that the camera will turn on again

[shirokurome]

Ive recently purchased the M11 Monochrome and it didnt freeze but the LCD had issues and had to replace it after 5 days...My replacement now froze twice. Now Im not sure if the first one would have frozen as I had it for a very brief period only...Im using an APO Summicron 35M and a Sony SD Card.

[Smogg]

58 minutes ago, shirokurome said:

Ive recently purchased the M11 Monochrome and it didnt freeze but the LCD had issues and had to replace it after 5 days...My replacement now froze twice. Now Im not sure if the first one would have frozen as I had it for a very brief period only...Im using an APO Summicron 35M and a Sony SD Card.

When you ask for a new replacement, choose a camera with firmware 1.6.1 in the store, then there will be fewer problems

[fotografr]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:18 AM, Smogg said:

Moreover: the M11 regularly freezes even if you didn’t take a single picture, but just turned it on, looked in rear liveview screen, focused and changed your mind about shooting and turned it off. After this, it is not at all a fact that the camera will turn on again

This is so discouraging. I'd very much like to upgrade to the M11 but I absolutely will not do it unless this serious flaw is corrected. My frustration tolerance is too low to deal with it. 

[Smogg]

26 minutes ago, fotografr said:

This is so discouraging. I'd very much like to upgrade to the M11 but I absolutely will not do it unless this serious flaw is corrected. My frustration tolerance is too low to deal with it. 

I still hope for a firmware update, Leica is running out of time. They can't release the M11-D because not many people will buy it unless the fatal software bug is fixed.

[fotografr]

35 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I still hope for a firmware update, Leica is running out of time. They can't release the M11-D because not many people will buy it unless the fatal software bug is fixed.

Just my uneducated opinion here, but I think Leica have packed too much into the camera and when several functions are operating at the same time (the main culprit being LiveView) the heat buildup in the camera causes a shutdown. 

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[Stephen.s1]

I don't use my M10P and M10M enough to let the "freeze" bother me.  But what does piss me off, is that Leica has not fixed this years long problem.  They seem to have taken the stance that we suckers will put up with anything as long as the red dot is on it.

I for one will not spend another nickle on another unproven M series camera.

[lct]

21 minutes ago, fotografr said:

[...] when several functions are operating at the same time (the main culprit being LiveView) the heat buildup in the camera causes a shutdown. 

Mine would fail then as i use LV a lot. I'm not best placed to give advice but i would wait quietly, so to speak, for the next fw update if i were anxious.