M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[lct]

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Are your CV lenses hand coded? 

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[Qlan]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

Are your CV lenses hand coded? 

Not coded at all. I use manual M and set them to an equivalent Leica lens (in terms of max aperture and focal length). 

[lct]

5 hours ago, Qlan said:

I set lens detection to manual M and have one profile for each lens

Just to avoid misurderstandings, what did you save in each of your user profiles, manual M or the name of the equiv. Leica lens?

[lct]

5 hours ago, Qlan said:

 Why do I think lens detection is never off?

Did you save lens detection off in each of your user profiles?

[Qlan]

Profile 1: Lens detection: Manual M -> 28 f/2 ASPH. 11604

Profile 2: Lens detection: Manual M -> 50 f/2 11819/...

The manual says: "The camera will automatically set the correct lens type when a Leica M lens with 6-bit encoding is used. No manual setting will be required. The camera will switch to Auto automatically when an encoded Leica M lens is attached, regardless of the original lens setting." (p38)

This is the issue. This means lens detection is never off. Even if you switch it to Off, it will switch back to auto if it detects a 6-bit encoding. While that works well most of the time, sometimes, I want the camera to stay in Lens Detection Off or Manual M/R and not switch automatically. So in my case, I believe that lens detection sometimes thinks it is reading a 6-bit code, so it switches to Auto but can't read a valid code, so switch back to the previous setting. However that counts as a setting change, and my profile is no longer the "person icon with a number" but just "a person". And my hypothesis is that is sometimes causing the freeze.

 

Btw just encountered a freeze this morning, after waking the camera from standby... (I usually deactivate standby but wanted to test it today).

Edited November 6, 2022 by Qlan

[Qlan]

And another new freeze just now:

Went to review mode, the picture is black, but histogram is shown (and it's not all black), as well as ISO, exposition compensation, shutter speed, etc. However wrong values for ISO (shown 3200 instead of 64), shutter speed (shown 1s instead of 1/320). I can click on Menu to display the delete options. I select Delete single but then when I try to delete the picture, nothing happens. I can exit the Delete Single mode by clicking Play. Nothing else works. Pressing the shutter does nothing, pressing Play or Fn to exit Review mode does nothing. I turn the camera off and the orange led stays on. Turning it on does nothing. Had to pop the battery. I captured this on video.

I had a Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I 256Gb 200Mb/s (that's the updated version of the 170Mb/s. Maybe I should have bought the latter).

That's it for me. Gonna go to a Leica store and see if I can exchange it, otherwise will exchange it with the online store I bought it at.

[lct]

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26 minutes ago, Qlan said:

The manual says: "The camera will automatically set the correct lens type when a Leica M lens with 6-bit encoding is used. No manual setting will be required. The camera will switch to Auto automatically when an encoded Leica M lens is attached, regardless of the original lens setting." (p38)

This is the issue. This means lens detection is never off. [...]

You said you were using uncoded CV lenses if i understood well. Then you were not in the situation described in the manual, right? If you want lens detection to be off with uncoded lenses and user profiles you have to enter lens detection off in each user profile and save it accordingly. At least it is the way i do. Want to try? 

Edited November 6, 2022 by lct

[Qlan]

Just now, lct said:

You said you were using an uncoded CV lens if i understood well. Then you were not in the situation described in the manual, right? If you want lens detection to be off with uncoded lenses and user profiles you have to enter lens detection off in each user profile and save it accordingly. At least it is the way i do. Want to try? 

But how does the camera knows if a coded lens has been mounted? The only way it knows is if lens detection is never off, right?

But sure I will set it to Off. My hypothesis doesn't change. Lens detection is never off. It will try to read a value every now and then (and when it starts up, and when a picture is taken, etc). Sometimes, it thinks there is a change in lens, so it switch to Auto, but can't detect anything, so fall back to the previous setting, which is Off. But that counts as a setting change, and the profile icon will be "the person without a number".

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Qlan said:

But how does the camera knows if a coded lens has been mounted? The only way it knows is if lens detection is never off, right?

But sure I will set it to Off. My hypothesis doesn't change. Lens detection is never off. It will try to read a value every now and then (and when it starts up, and when a picture is taken, etc). Sometimes, it thinks there is a change in lens, so it switch to Auto, but can't detect anything, so fall back to the previous setting, which is Off. But that counts as a setting change, and the profile icon will be "the person without a number".

Pity for my old brain . Would you wish to try what i suggested and see what happens?

[TripH]

50 minutes ago, Qlan said:

And another new freeze just now:

Went to review mode, the picture is black, but histogram is shown (and it's not all black), as well as ISO, exposition compensation, shutter speed, etc. However wrong values for ISO (shown 3200 instead of 64), shutter speed (shown 1s instead of 1/320). I can click on Menu to display the delete options. I select Delete single but then when I try to delete the picture, nothing happens. I can exit the Delete Single mode by clicking Play. Nothing else works. Pressing the shutter does nothing, pressing Play or Fn to exit Review mode does nothing. I turn the camera off and the orange led stays on. Turning it on does nothing. Had to pop the battery. I captured this on video.

Interesting. And maybe some important information for the devs.

This is almost exactly the same failure mode that I encountered today -- and have not been able to repeat... And what's interesting is that I was changing an existing user profile to test an issue in another thread. So, I went from a defined user profile (person with a number), to 'just a person', then entertered playback to see what was on the SD when the failure occured. This sounds like what happened when you switched lenses/profiles, then the same failure mode...

So, I've encountered the 'standby freeze' failure and this 'playback freeze' failure. Just once for each... Popping the battery was the only way to fix either failure.

2c,

h

[Qlan]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Pity for my old brain . Would you wish to try what i suggested and see what happens?

Ok another freeze. I created a new profile with Lens Detection to Off. I turn on the camera, the mechanical shutter opens, the frame lines appear but no light meter information in the viewfinder. Pressing the shutter does nothing. Pressing the Menu button works and the quick menu is displayed. It shows that Lens Detection is Off and the profile is correct (set to my new profile with Lens Detection to Off). Pressing Play works and I can see past pictures. Pressing Fn to go to Live View completely freezes the camera. The display shows the image I was viewing but added the level gauge and the focus peaking icon. ISO value changed from 1250 (that's the value for my pic) to 8000 and shutter from 1/160 to 1/45. Now clicking on any button does nothing. Turning the camera on does nothing (the frozen picture still on).

Had to pop the battery.

This is getting insanely frustrating... 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Qlan

[TheEyesHaveIt]

This must be a firmware issue right? I don’t see why exchanging the camera will change anything. It doesn’t seem like a mechanical fault.

[SrMi]

22 minutes ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

This must be a firmware issue right? I don’t see why exchanging the camera will change anything. It doesn’t seem like a mechanical fault.

IMO, it certainly could be a hardware issues. I would exchange the camera.

[TheEyesHaveIt]

25 minutes ago, SrMi said:

IMO, it certainly could be a hardware issues. I would exchange the camera.

How could it be a hardware issue? What in the hardware would cause it? It also seems pretty common.

[TripH]

1 hour ago, Qlan said:

This is getting insanely frustrating... 

Have you tried a different SD card or remove the SD card and save to internal memory? 

[Qlan]

4 minutes ago, TripH said:

Have you tried a different SD card or remove the SD card and save to internal memory? 

Yes, tried with no SD card, still experiencing freezes, although seems less frequent. I tried everything this thread and others have suggested: no standby, no SD card, no live view, etc.

Quote

How could it be a hardware issue? What in the hardware would cause it? It also seems pretty common.

Some people seem to experience much more freezes than others. Or course could still be caused entirely by the software and edge cases (like the use of third party lenses). I only had the camera for 4 days and experienced 10+ freezes in different situations (granted, I actively tried to cause freezes by turning the camera on and off often during the day). I contacted someone at the San Francisco Leica store, will see what they will say.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Qlan

[lct]

1 hour ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

This must be a firmware issue right? I don’t see why exchanging the camera will change anything. It doesn’t seem like a mechanical fault.

If it were a firmware issue i would have the same... This camera is faulty anyway so i would not keep it personally.

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

How could it be a hardware issue? What in the hardware would cause it? It also seems pretty common.

My M11 freezes very rarely and is very usable. I do not see Qlan's problem as common. Can anyone replicate his issues?

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[TripH]

22 minutes ago, Qlan said:

I only had the camera for 4 days and experienced 10+ freezes in different situations (granted, I actively tried to cause freezes by turning the camera on and off often during the day). I contacted someone at the San Francisco Leica store, and see what they will say

If you're getting that many failures in so short a time, then I'd take the camera to the nearest dealer (if possible) and let them have a look... They can swap memory cards, try some diferent lenses, etc.

There are some quick things you can try (if you haven't already): resetting the camera, reloading the firmware, etc. BTW: just because the camera is 'new' doesn't mean that it has the latest firmware -- you might just check that...

11 minutes ago, lct said:

If it were a firmware issue i would have the same...

But is it the same test conditions? Do you have some uncoded lenses with manual in-camera coading profiles? I can't duplicate that scenario in my setup...

 

2c,

h

Edited November 6, 2022 by TripH

[lct]

18 minutes ago, TripH said:

But is it the same test conditions? Do you have some non-coaded lenses with manual in-camera coading profiles? I can't duplicate that scenario in my setup..

I have 30+ M lenses of diverse origins. Most are coded but i have also some uncoded lenses from Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander. What @Qlan is describing is not normal in my experience so whatever theory may explain this it is not a camera i would keep if i were in his/her shoes. YMMV.

Edited November 6, 2022 by lct