frame-it Posted September 2, 2022 Share #161 Posted September 2, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 12 minutes ago, MrFriendly said: some kind of potential memory leak that builds up overtime that needs a Major OS/firmware fix Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 2, 2022 Posted September 2, 2022 Hi frame-it, Take a look here M11 freeze issues [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mrmalo Posted September 2, 2022 Author Share #162 Posted September 2, 2022 7 hours ago, MrFriendly said: The freezing-up issue is a common problem with the M cameras, not just M11; if you search the forum, you will find many posts about it. I had a M246 Monochrom that would constantly freeze up. Then I got two brand new M10M that also had the same issue, and then again the same problem with my M10-P. I'm a software engineer who works on embedded OS for a living, and I spent a lot of time investigating the freezing-up issue of my M cameras. I have a hard time believing that the issue is anything but a firmware bug, potentially some kind of race condition, that occurs during read/write stage. Unfortunately, Leica has tried to convince its customers that the issue is with their SD cards, which I don't buy. If it really is the SD cards, then Leica should publish a list of supported SD cards that work without issue, but so far they have refused or unable to publish such a list. I even asked the Leica Technical support, and they told me that Leica factory headquarters in Germany is inclined to think the modern Lexar card used may be the cause, they unfortunately don’t get specific with regard to make and model of recommended cards. There are couple of things you can do to reduce the probability of the camera freezing up: use slower SD cards. I use 90MB/sec ones, and that greatly reduces the problem. If I use something like a 250MB/sec card, then I can get the M to freeze up in a few minutes. hard reset the camera by removing the battery before use. I'm not sure how effective this is, but I have a feeling that there is some kind of potential memory leak that builds up overtime that contributes to the issue. Leica is not a software company, and they certainly do not develop their own realt-time operating system, so this issues is probably never going to get fixed. And I bet all the M cameras mentioned here use the same OS. Interesting enough, I have never had my SL2-S freeze up, and I always use the Lexar 250MB/sec cards with that camera. My guess is that the SL cameras use a different OS than the M, which doesn't suffer from this bug(s). I hope that helps. P.S. I don't own a M11 (waiting for M11-P and M11M 🙂) Agreed, it seems to be a common problem across M cameras and don't think it will ever be resolved. I originally posted this thread back in January 2022. Since then, I've been updating my camera when new firmware is released, and haven't experienced a crash in a very long time. I also shoot in full manual mode. I'm not sure if it's SD card speed related, as mine is 300mb/s! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted September 3, 2022 Share #163 Posted September 3, 2022 Yeah i remember back in the day some freezes up were unfortunately directed at particular SDcard but on the slower speed though so while i hope there’s at least a workaround i found the temporary solution seems inconsistent best bet probably use the old sdcard which never leads to a freeze problem before and hope while the problem builds over time, it wont lead to the death of its host Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 3, 2022 Share #164 Posted September 3, 2022 19 hours ago, mrmalo said: Agreed, it seems to be a common problem across M cameras and don't think it will ever be resolved. I originally posted this thread back in January 2022. Since then, I've been updating my camera when new firmware is released, and haven't experienced a crash in a very long time. I also shoot in full manual mode. I'm not sure if it's SD card speed related, as mine is 300mb/s! Has anybody investigated whether this is temperature related? M cameras are known to have heat management problems occasionally, due to the vintage body design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted September 3, 2022 Share #165 Posted September 3, 2022 I am not an engineer or have any insides. I think Leica is using a new database on the M11. If you use a card from another camera it need formatting before you can use it in the M11 no more moving cards from SL or other M cameras. I had freezing issue with faster cards, Sony and ProGrade but they have been resolved with FW updates. I don't think overheating is a big issue on the M11, the sensor does not get as hot. The M10R use to get read hot. If you have problem email Leica with your card model and they may fix it. I am a fun of the internal memory as late, it is much faster clearing up buffer. I just copy images to SD card when I get home. SrMi, jakontil and mon10a 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinj Posted September 3, 2022 Share #166 Posted September 3, 2022 My first "real world" shooting with my M11 yesterday. About 6 hours. Froze thrice, had to take out battery each time to fix it. Basically, waking up from auto power off, but nothing worked, no response to any button press. I could see the red leds in the rangefinder window, so the camera definitely woke up. Temp wasn't high and SD card formatted in camera. Was using the Viso, so not sure if it is related to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 3, 2022 Share #167 Posted September 3, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 27 minutes ago, ravinj said: My first "real world" shooting with my M11 yesterday. About 6 hours. Froze thrice, had to take out battery each time to fix it. Basically, waking up from auto power off, but nothing worked, no response to any button press. I could see the red leds in the rangefinder window, so the camera definitely woke up. Temp wasn't high and SD card formatted in camera. Was using the Viso, so not sure if it is related to that. Which card were you using? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinj Posted September 3, 2022 Share #168 Posted September 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, lct said: Which card were you using? Sandisk 128GB. UHS-1. Same cards used in all my cameras incl Q2, SL2, X1D with no issues. Didn't have issues on M10-R either. I think I will try another run with just the internal memory only, though I doubt it is related to SD card in my case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 3, 2022 Share #169 Posted September 3, 2022 46 minutes ago, ravinj said: I think I will try another run with just the internal memory only Yes good idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted September 4, 2022 Share #170 Posted September 4, 2022 8 hours ago, ravinj said: My first "real world" shooting with my M11 yesterday. About 6 hours. Froze thrice, had to take out battery each time to fix it. Basically, waking up from auto power off, but nothing worked, no response to any button press. I could see the red leds in the rangefinder window, so the camera definitely woke up. Temp wasn't high and SD card formatted in camera. Was using the Viso, so not sure if it is related to that. @Santos told me probably turning off standby mode might cure it but i havent tried it myself since been shooting with my m10r as of late i might be curious now, really want to get the m11 work as intended without hiccups ravinj 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santos Posted September 6, 2022 Share #171 Posted September 6, 2022 (edited) @ravinj As @jakontil Mentioned, Based From My Usage, Having The Standby Mode Off And Just Leaving The Camera On While In Use Seem To Help. Of Course, This Is But A Temporary Measure. I Have Been Facing The Same Issue, But Using The Grip Made It Harder To Get To The Battery. From My Side, I Have Raised The Issue Through Leica ME. Seems The Issue For Some Reason Is More Pronounced In Alloy Bodies (But My Sample Size Is Two). Hope This Helps Until A Firmware Is Pushed Out. Not Completely Unrelated But Just A Ramble: Not Derailing Here, But Camera Manufacturers Started This Real Life Testing At The Expense Of Early Adopters Of Their Cameras (Oh God The H2S Is A Useless Brick When Compared To XT4). I Know, We Always Expect The Perfect Product From Our Favorite Brand, But We Are Participating In A Public Test Realm (Gamer Here Lol). Yeah We Want Tighter Quality Control And Testing, And As A Person Privileged To Have Different Bodies To Switch To, I Have No Right Defending Them (Where Is My 28 Lux Leica -.- Its Been 2 Months And I Have A 90 To Send!) But I Think Shortages And Current Economic Issues Are Effecting The Quality Control Team Which I Understand (Heck Its Been Effecting My Team In The Space Industry, And I Start Seeing Functional And Some Tests Like Rad Completely Omitted In The Favor Of Heritage Of Components). I Just Hope Things Get Back On Track, Way Before They Spend Resources On The Release Of The M11P. Because By Then I Expect My M11 To Be In Top Notch Condition, As I Only Purchase Monochrome And D Versions After The "Vanilla" Versions Release (Unless There Is A Blue Body! Oh That Frankfurt.... My Moby-Dick... I Shall Find You One Day... And My Cats And I Shall Go Hungry.... Be It Months We Are Patient... My Savings Spear Shall Pierce You My Friend...). Edited September 6, 2022 by Santos Sent Reply By Error When Clicking Shift+Enter Keys... Twice.. jakontil and ravinj 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinj Posted September 7, 2022 Share #172 Posted September 7, 2022 Thanks Santos. As you noted, the workaround is not a solution, but perhaps not as annoying as having to take the battery out to bring the camera back to life. Though on the other hand, leaving it always on while shooting means battery running out sooner or depleting at the exact moment when you need to take a shot. Santos 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted September 13, 2022 Share #173 Posted September 13, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 6:13 PM, ravinj said: My first "real world" shooting with my M11 yesterday. About 6 hours. Froze thrice, had to take out battery each time to fix it. Basically, waking up from auto power off, but nothing worked, no response to any button press. I could see the red leds in the rangefinder window, so the camera definitely woke up. Temp wasn't high and SD card formatted in camera. Was using the Viso, so not sure if it is related to that. Lately using the live view, 'iphone' style. And yes, few crashes here and there. Somehow the camera does not like to switch off and toggle live view too often. I do not have the Viso but suspect it may be a similar issue with the Viso being a live view on and off. And crash. Fix is battery in/out but the whole feels a little sluggish. Finger crossed can be fixed with some update/ G. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted September 17, 2022 Share #174 Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) I was just out for 30-40 mins casual shooting and the freezing / crashing seems to get worse. Have nothing changed but it froze twice (needed to remove the battery) and in the other ~10 cases, the display for the preview remained black after the shot was taken (even though it should show the preview of the image for 3 secs). sorry but for such an expensive camera, this is beyond ridiculous. This totally ruins the shooting experience and I resist to go out with the camera… thinking of selling the whole setup at the moment. Havent had this with the m10p and even a couple of month back it was also not that often! Idk whether the latest FW made it worse but this is nothing to accept from such a company. Edited September 17, 2022 by Jewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 17, 2022 Share #175 Posted September 17, 2022 50 minutes ago, Jewl said: I was just out for 30-40 mins casual shooting and the freezing / crashing seems to get worse. Have nothing changed but it froze twice (needed to remove the battery) and in the other ~10 cases, the display for the preview remained black after the shot was taken (even though it should show the preview of the image for 3 secs). sorry but for such an expensive camera, this is beyond ridiculous. This totally ruins the shooting experience and I resist to go out with the camera… thinking of selling the whole setup at the moment. Havent had this with the m10p and even a couple of month back it was also not that often! Idk whether the latest FW made it worse but this is nothing to accept from such a company. May i ask if you were using a UHS-I or UHS-II card? Just curious as i have never got those problems with any of my Sandisk UHS-I cards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted September 17, 2022 Share #176 Posted September 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Jewl said: I was just out for 30-40 mins casual shooting and the freezing / crashing seems to get worse. Have nothing changed but it froze twice (needed to remove the battery) and in the other ~10 cases, the display for the preview remained black after the shot was taken (even though it should show the preview of the image for 3 secs). sorry but for such an expensive camera, this is beyond ridiculous. This totally ruins the shooting experience and I resist to go out with the camera… thinking of selling the whole setup at the moment. Havent had this with the m10p and even a couple of month back it was also not that often! Idk whether the latest FW made it worse but this is nothing to accept from such a company. Sorry to hear about your issues. That is not a typical M11 experience. I have two and both behave flawlessly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted September 17, 2022 Share #177 Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) vor einer Stunde schrieb lct: May i ask if you were using a UHS-I or UHS-II card? Just curious as i have never got those problems with any of my Sandisk UHS-I cards. I have a Sony SF-G64T 64GB UHS-II SD Tough G Series maybe I will try another one. But replace the one I initially had from my m10 to get rid of the above mentioned issue. Hasnt helped. Then a firmware update removed the issue or at least I thought it disappeared but now it is here again Edited September 17, 2022 by Jewl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted September 17, 2022 Share #178 Posted September 17, 2022 vor 9 Minuten schrieb SrMi: Sorry to hear about your issues. That is not a typical M11 experience. I have two and both behave flawlessly. Hard to tell the customer care how to reproduce this… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 17, 2022 Share #179 Posted September 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Jewl said: I have a Sony SF-G64T 64GB UHS-II SD Tough G Series maybe I will try another one. But replace the one I initially had from my m10 to get rid of the above mentioned issue. Hasnt helped. Then a firmware update removed the issue or at least I thought it disappeared but now it is here again Sony Tough is the one i got problems with. You may wish to try an UHS-I (not UHS-II) card. They are not expensive it can do little harm to try. Jewl 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewl Posted September 17, 2022 Share #180 Posted September 17, 2022 vor 55 Minuten schrieb lct: Sony Tough is the one i got problems with. You may wish to try an UHS-I (not UHS-II) card. They are not expensive it can do little harm to try. Will do! Which one do you have that works in your M11? Maybe I should try exactly this one Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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