frame-it Posted July 22, 2022 Share #61 Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 13 minutes ago, tom0511 said: Dont let the few people, who spend their time searching for bad things in products they dont own, disencourage you. Over the years I have found a lot of usefull information on this forum from many positive people. I also think its good to hear different opinions. the trolls can be ignored and later banned or whatever, but i think what should be fixed is 1) the extreme sarcasm/joking in some replies 2) the almost apple-forum-esque way that some people reply about a problem not being a problem because its a leica, almost as if the other person is lying. and 3) the almost manic way in which people who don't own or have never used the product in question want to jump in to comment on or reply to something, sometimes just to prove a point?? Edited July 22, 2022 by frame-it 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 22, 2022 Posted July 22, 2022 Hi frame-it, Take a look here I love my M11, (and Q2 Mono) but..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ray Vonn Posted July 22, 2022 Share #62 Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Jobetim said: Hi, OP here. First, my apologies for upsetting people, that was not my intention; I am simply a new Leica owner, interested in discussing Leica related topics with (what I thought would be) like-minded souls, enriching my experience, and trying to become a better photographer. So I assumed that this was a good forum to join. I can now see that this was a naive mistake, and newcomers don't seem to be very welcome. So I'll leave you all to it; me and my Leica will be on our way, and you'll be relieved to hear that II won't be posting again. Best wishes. That's a shame, sorry to see that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 22, 2022 Share #63 Posted July 22, 2022 I'm not even sure why if (for the sake of argument) a Sony picture looks as good as a Leica picture why that's even a problem... Hey see my photo wow what a great image, I love the colours, I love the tonality, the pop, the glow, the micro-contrast, the majestic nuanced poetic interplay between the tertiary colours I shot it on a Sony Oh my bad it's f*cking shit then Really? And as many of know better than me... a sensor has as many layers as a Di Lusso Deli Company sandwich, the bits that matter to the image you see are the top bits and very much how the engineers code the signal output. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 22, 2022 Share #64 Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Adam Bonn said: I'm not even sure why if (for the sake of argument) a Sony picture looks as good as a Leica picture why that's even a problem... Just husbands unable to explain their wife why they paid so much for a Sony sensor i guess. Maybe we should set up a psychological support cell for them on the LUF . Edited July 22, 2022 by lct 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted July 22, 2022 Share #65 Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Adam Bonn said: I'm not even sure why if (for the sake of argument) a Sony picture looks as good as a Leica picture why that's even a problem... Hey see my photo wow what a great image, I love the colours, I love the tonality, the pop, the glow, the micro-contrast, the majestic nuanced poetic interplay between the tertiary colours I shot it on a Sony Oh my bad it's f*cking shit then Really? And as many of know better than me... a sensor has as many layers as a Di Lusso Deli Company sandwich, the bits that matter to the image you see are the top bits and very much how the engineers code the signal output. I hear you Adam, We all know that Sony is a world class leading company that makes top of the line imaging products in the broadcasting, cinema, photography and gaming industries to name a few. At home, I Use a Sony Bravia OLED TV because I appreciate that it is able to show me the cinematographer and Director's intent in a most transparent way. I shoot with a digital Leica M because not only do I like how it feels in the hand, I have loved the images I make with it from the M9 all the way to my M11. I trust Leica to choose a sensor manufacturer that is most aligned with its vision for the current M being manufactured at that point in time. So far I haven't been disappointed and doubt I ever will be. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 22, 2022 Share #66 Posted July 22, 2022 Didn't Sony become the world leader in sensor tech by pretty much buying up every sensor foundry they could find for sale on Craigslist and eBay (and probably some other places)? If so... the snobbery's even worse I think... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted July 22, 2022 Share #67 Posted July 22, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Adam Bonn said: Didn't Sony become the world leader in sensor tech by pretty much buying up every sensor foundry they could find for sale on Craigslist and eBay (and probably some other places)? If so... the snobbery's even worse I think... I wouldn’t put it it past them. IIRC they got into the camera business by buying Konica-Minolta and after they lost the VHS Betamax fight due to lack of movies in Betamax, they want on a studio buying binge thus creating Sony Pictures 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted July 23, 2022 Share #68 Posted July 23, 2022 To my mind there's little doubt that over the past half decade or so, whatever IQ gap there might have been has largely been erased. Each system has it's quirks relative to color, but processing improvements have largely made this concern irrelevant as well. That said, M's by virtue of the range of native glass available have, in my view, a wider palette on offer than any other contemporary system. Buying into a ILC system, AFAIC, has always been about the glass first, body second. In that sense there really is no other system that can match the breadth of potential renderings available when using an M. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 23, 2022 Share #69 Posted July 23, 2022 Two cameras -- likely using the same underlying sensor silicon -- compared for color. No, I have not watched the whole video, nor do I recommend it. Yes, there are differences. Summary: "We found that Leica outperformed the Fujifilm in most of the comparisons" Fujifilm GFX 100S Versus Leica M11: Who Has the Best Color? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted July 23, 2022 Share #70 Posted July 23, 2022 Can you not adjust colors quite well in Lightroom? Or what kind of coulor faults can be corrected in post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 23, 2022 Share #71 Posted July 23, 2022 4 hours ago, SrMi said: Two cameras -- likely using the same underlying sensor silicon -- compared for color. No, I have not watched the whole video, nor do I recommend it. Yes, there are differences. Summary: "We found that Leica outperformed the Fujifilm in most of the comparisons" Fujifilm GFX 100S Versus Leica M11: Who Has the Best Color? nice but he should have used C1 for the fuji files, LR is crap for fuji files. but quite frankly if one really wants to see & compare the straight outta camera colors he should have opened both raw files in raw therapy or raw digger..no profiles and no adjustments = no bias. "Two cameras -- likely using the same underlying sensor silicon" is like saying both cameras have a main board, a view finder and and some screws 😂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted July 23, 2022 Share #72 Posted July 23, 2022 44 minutes ago, frame-it said: nice but he should have used C1 for the fuji files, LR is crap for fuji files. ….. at around 3 minutes in the video he says all images were processed in C1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 23, 2022 Share #73 Posted July 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: ….. at around 3 minutes in the video he says all images were processed in C1 i missed that, as i was looking at the LR interface...weird PSD workflow but whatever works for him i guess.. quite frankly if one really wants to see & compare the straight outta camera colors he should have opened both raw files in raw therapy or raw digger..no profiles and no adjustments = no bias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 23, 2022 Share #74 Posted July 23, 2022 2 hours ago, frame-it said: nice but he should have used C1 for the fuji files, LR is crap for fuji files. Fuji Bayer sensors have always produced great results with Adobe software. Older Adobe software had issues with X-trans files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 23, 2022 Share #75 Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, frame-it said: i missed that, as i was looking at the LR interface...weird PSD workflow but whatever works for him i guess.. quite frankly if one really wants to see & compare the straight outta camera colors he should have opened both raw files in raw therapy or raw digger..no profiles and no adjustments = no bias. It does not make sense to compare color in RawDigger. That tool is not made for it. There are many components to creating the final color, the data stored in the raw is only a part of the process. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted July 23, 2022 Share #76 Posted July 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, SrMi said: There are many components to creating the final color, the data stored in the raw is only a part of the process. exactly, and that's why it makes sense to see the rawest possible interpretation of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 23, 2022 Share #77 Posted July 23, 2022 Which makes you dependent on the interpretation of a factory engineer. RAW is not RAW, but the result of the camera interpolation and firmware pre-processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 23, 2022 Share #78 Posted July 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, frame-it said: exactly, and that's why it makes sense to see the rawest possible interpretation of it. You know that selected WB has no effect on raw files (there are weird exceptions). Manufacturers never intend for untreated raw files to have good colors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 23, 2022 Share #79 Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SrMi said: You know that selected WB has no effect on raw files (there are weird exceptions). Manufacturers never intend for untreated raw files to have good colors. It does with a DNG/adobe workflow. The 'AsShotNeutral' tag that the camera embeds in the DNG (whether that value is AWB/Preset/or user defined via a WB card) is the one variable in a fixed mathematical process that starts with unwhite-balanced RAW data and ends in XYZ D50 WB can be changed after the fact in the RAW app though Edited July 23, 2022 by Adam Bonn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 23, 2022 Share #80 Posted July 23, 2022 It does have to be said though... that fact a large percentage of RAW files up in one or two brands of RAW app IMHO greatly skews what we think of as camera colours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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