LocalHero1953 Posted July 3, 2022 Share #21 Posted July 3, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, SrMi said: It is not a problem as long as it bothers only people who don’t use the M11 😉. By that argument it doesn't matter if they only sell one camera - as long as the only people complaining are those not buying..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2022 Posted July 3, 2022 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Shutter lag comments from Jesko von Oeynhausen. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
opera207 Posted July 3, 2022 Share #22 Posted July 3, 2022 Noise of waking up is more annoying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2022 Share #23 Posted July 3, 2022 8 hours ago, 105012 said: ...but how frustrating to sometimes wait a perceptible eighth of a second for the slow machine to respond. It's a Leica for goodness sake! Matter of tastes i guess but what i find frustrating is i don't hear when the photo is shot within the duration of the shutter noise. 320ms below. LeicaM11_shutt_60s.mp3 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/334121-shutter-lag-comments-from-jesko-von-oeynhausen/?do=findComment&comment=4464210'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 3, 2022 Share #24 Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, lct said: Matter of tastes i guess but what i find frustrating is i don't hear when the photo is shot within the duration of the shutter noise. 320ms below. LeicaM11_shutt_60s.mp3 8.66 kB · 97 downloads Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! In your audio visualization it should be between the small second spike and larger third spike (close/open-/-close/open). Edited July 3, 2022 by hdmesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2022 Share #25 Posted July 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, hdmesa said: In your audio visualization it should be between the small second spike and larger third spike (close/open-/-close/open). Interesting thanks. In case of EFCS, which spike(s) would be avoided? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 3, 2022 Share #26 Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, lct said: Interesting thanks. In case of EFCS, which spike(s) would be avoided? Just curious. The first two, but they may be able to sandwich the last two closer together. I imagine they are spread apart right now to reduce shutter wear. Which begs the question maybe they could do the same for mechanical. No reason the shutter reopening has to lag so far behind the other three spikes. EFCS: electronic shutter starts exposure silently, a click to end exposure, a click to reopen shutter. The first sound you hear is the exposure ending. On most mirrorless the two sounds with EFCS are so fast they sound like one action, so Leica would have to make it so the shutter reopening didn’t lag so far behind the the shutter closing, otherwise every exposure would sound like a 1/4 sec. shutter time (like it already sounds now with mechanical). Edited July 3, 2022 by hdmesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 3, 2022 Share #27 Posted July 3, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, lct said: Matter of tastes i guess but what i find frustrating is i don't hear when the photo is shot within the duration of the shutter noise. 320ms below. LeicaM11_shutt_60s.mp3 8.66 kB · 204 downloads Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Can you shoot two shots in a row using the Continuous High drive mode and post the visual? I'm curious if it will be two duplicates of what you already recorded or if they more rapidly re-open the shutter between exposures to reduce lag in continuous mode. If the the latter happens, that means they could update the firmware to reduce the length of the current single exposure by not waiting so long to re-open the shutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2022 Share #28 Posted July 3, 2022 1 hour ago, hdmesa said: Can you shoot two shots in a row using the Continuous High drive mode and post the visual? I'm curious if it will be two duplicates of what you already recorded or if they more rapidly re-open the shutter between exposures to reduce lag in continuous mode. If the the latter happens, that means they could update the firmware to reduce the length of the current single exposure by not waiting so long to re-open the shutter. LeicaM11_shut_cont_high.mp3 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/334121-shutter-lag-comments-from-jesko-von-oeynhausen/?do=findComment&comment=4464383'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 3, 2022 Share #29 Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: LeicaM11_shut_cont_high.mp3 13.58 kB · 68 downloads Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Ok, they definitely are changing the shutter behavior between the various drive modes. It's more dampened in single shot but slower to complete the cycle. It's louder in continuous-high but completes the cycle much faster. Image below is adjusted so that the horizontal dB lines are the same between measurements and the time is the same, too –> and you can see that in single shot mode, it's quieter but slower to complete a single 4-click shot cycle (close/open/–exp–/close/open). I would love to have the choice to have the louder but faster shutter cycle in single shot mode! I may try leaving it in one of the continuous drive modes and only holding down the shutter long enough for one exposure as a work-around. (Top image is single exposure in single shot drive mode. Bottom image is two shots in continuous high.) First magenta line is the shutter closing so it can begin the exposure cycle Second magenta line is shutter opening to start the exposure Third magenta line is the shutter closing to end the exposure Fourth magenta line is the shutter opening to resume off-sensor metering Edited July 3, 2022 by hdmesa 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2022 Share #30 Posted July 3, 2022 Indeed in single shot mode, the total shutter sound would be reduced from 320 to 210ms this way: LeicaM11_shut_sing_red.mp3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didier Posted July 3, 2022 Share #31 Posted July 3, 2022 23 hours ago, 105012 said: 50 to 125ms! That’s up to an eight of a second! My M3’s will best this M11 every time. Immediate response, no need for half presses, das wesentliche. 22 hours ago, hdmesa said: Wiki says 16ms for M3 and 12ms for M7. From what I read about the M11, most people seem to think there is no problem with this shutter lag. I have the feeling that, when shooting analog Ms I always know how my picture will look, and especially how a portrait has been captured (which kind of smile or eyes open/closed, …). With digital Ms I have the feeling it is less the case, and I always take 2 or 3 shots in a row, as fast as possible, when shooting a portrait to capture a good expression. I do not consider myself to be exceptionally fast, but I think this difference between analog and digital could be due to the difference in shutter lag. If there is a big difference between M11 and previous digital Ms, this could worsen the impression/result. Didier 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 3, 2022 Author Share #32 Posted July 3, 2022 28 minutes ago, didier said: From what I read about the M11, most people seem to think there is no problem with this shutter lag. I have the feeling that, when shooting analog Ms I always know how my picture will look, and especially how a portrait has been captured (which kind of smile or eyes open/closed, …). With digital Ms I have the feeling it is less the case, and I always take 2 or 3 shots in a row, as fast as possible, when shooting a portrait to capture a good expression. I do not consider myself to be exceptionally fast, but I think this difference between analog and digital could be due to the difference in shutter lag. If there is a big difference between M11 and previous digital Ms, this could worsen the impression/result. Didier Which digital M are you using? All measurements and Leica’s communication show that the difference in shutter lag vs. M10 is insignificant. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 3, 2022 Share #33 Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, lct said: Indeed in single shot mode, the total shutter sound would be reduced from 320 to 210ms this way: LeicaM11_shut_sing_red.mp3 6.55 kB · 141 downloads 1/3 reduction! Crazy. We all need to email Leica and ask for single shot mode to be updated so it can complete an exposure cycle as quickly as it does in continuous-high. info@leica-camera.com Edited July 3, 2022 by hdmesa 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geddon_jt Posted July 3, 2022 Share #34 Posted July 3, 2022 This thread is utterly fascinating. As a big Leica fan who has not yet pulled the trigger on the M11 I appreciate the deep dive here as it’s my biggest hesitation with the camera personally. Good work everyone. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted July 3, 2022 Share #35 Posted July 3, 2022 I have not used the M11, but have used the M10-R, the M10-M and the M240. None of these gave me the same confidence I have capturing the moment as precisely as my M3's. I used them with all manual exposure (old habits), it could be just that I needed to spend longer with them. I did also find them annoying to have to switch on or fiddle with the shutter release to have to wake them up. I know that Leica could do better on this core M feature (responsiveness, directness and simplicity), even if it meant making the digital cameras less conventional digital cameras... As enthusiasts/customers of their products we should not hesitate to demand more of them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 4, 2022 Share #36 Posted July 4, 2022 1 hour ago, 105012 said: I have not used the M11, but have used the M10-R, the M10-M and the M240. None of these gave me the same confidence I have capturing the moment as precisely as my M3's. I used them with all manual exposure (old habits), it could be just that I needed to spend longer with them. I did also find them annoying to have to switch on or fiddle with the shutter release to have to wake them up. I know that Leica could do better on this core M feature (responsiveness, directness and simplicity), even if it meant making the digital cameras less conventional digital cameras... As enthusiasts/customers of their products we should not hesitate to demand more of them. You might enjoy the Q2/Q2M. The leaf shutter in the lens and shutter release feels instant, especially if you use manual focus/exposure. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted July 4, 2022 Author Share #37 Posted July 4, 2022 1 hour ago, hdmesa said: You might enjoy the Q2/Q2M. The leaf shutter in the lens and shutter release feels instant, especially if you use manual focus/exposure. The leaf shutter’s operation is: close-open-close-open. Sounds familiar 😉? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGA Posted July 4, 2022 Share #38 Posted July 4, 2022 3 hours ago, 105012 said: I have not used the M11, but have used the M10-R, the M10-M and the M240. None of these gave me the same confidence I have capturing the moment as precisely as my M3's. I used them with all manual exposure (old habits), it could be just that I needed to spend longer with them. I did also find them annoying to have to switch on or fiddle with the shutter release to have to wake them up. I know that Leica could do better on this core M feature (responsiveness, directness and simplicity), even if it meant making the digital cameras less conventional digital cameras... As enthusiasts/customers of their products we should not hesitate to demand more of them. I guess having to manually advance the film for the next shot doesn't count as lag....(this was meant as an ironic-comedic response as I have never used continuous shooting in any camera) - but still, looking through a viewfinder and the M3 finder is a beautiful thing - and then having to move the camera far enough away from your sight to cock the shutter - now that isn't measured in poofteenths of a second it is measured in seconds... there goes that decisive moment(s)...forever...gone ..never to appear again...lost... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
105012 Posted July 4, 2022 Share #39 Posted July 4, 2022 18 minutes ago, PeterGA said: there goes that decisive moment(s)...forever...gone ..never to appear again...lost... I am sure this is in jest, if not it surely misses the point 😀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 4, 2022 Share #40 Posted July 4, 2022 35 minutes ago, SrMi said: The leaf shutter’s operation is: close-open-close-open. Sounds familiar 😉? Yup, but it happens sooo faaaast 😆 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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