Shutter lag comments from Jesko von Oeynhausen

[SrMi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A DPR forum user contacted Leica about the shutter lag and got the following answer:

"Jesko von Oeynhausen - Global Director of Product Division Photo, has provided us with the following statement –

The shutter lag time of the M11 is, due to its new open-type shutter mechanism, a few milliseconds longer than its predecessor models. In practical use, the difference is hardly recognizable. The effective shutter lag depends on various circumstances like the lighting situation, shutter type and synchronization status of the light metering. Therefore, it can differ in practical use between 50 and 125 ms."

The increase in shutter lag due to metering has been observed on other cameras with off-sensor metering. AFAIK, this can be solved by keeping the shutter button half-pressed or using manual metering. 

Previous digital M cameras may not have the metering "penalty," but Jesko wrote that M11's lag is only milliseconds longer.

I always keep my shutter half-pressed before triggering, regardless of the camera. Therefore, any possible metering lag increase does not affect me.

[105012]

50 to 125ms! That’s up to an eight of a second! My M3’s will best this M11 every time. Immediate response, no need for half presses, das wesentliche.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, 105012 said:

50 to 125ms! That’s up to an eight of a second! My M3’s will best this M11 every time. Immediate response, no need for half presses, das wesentliche.

Please provide shutter lag measurements for M3.

[hdmesa]

Wiki says 16ms for M3 and 12ms for M7.

[105012]

The widely quoted figure is about 20ms, in any case, fast enough that there is no perceptible lag. Every time the same, never any variation. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by 105012

[hdmesa]

I find it strange that he blames the lag only on metering when clearly part of the delay is caused by having to close the M11 shutter before it can open again to begin the exposure.

[stephan54]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Shutter lag is one thing, but I quite often miss a shot because of the slow start up time. Would like them to address that.

[hdmesa]

Just now, stephan54 said:

Shutter lag is one thing, but I quite often miss a shot because of the slow start up time. Would like them to address that.

Workaround has been to leave the camera on since wake from standby is pretty fast compared to power-up from being off. Uses very little power in standby mode.

[SrMi]

8 minutes ago, stephan54 said:

Shutter lag is one thing, but I quite often miss a shot because of the slow start up time. Would like them to address that.

Many good photographers anticipate and have the camera ready. They never wait for startup to be completed. If that does not work for you, you can use @jonoslack's recommendation:

... Under Menu / Camera Settings / Power saver mode I have Camera Standby set to Off, and Display Standby set to 30 seconds. This works very well, wake up is almost instant ...

FWIW, startup time is similar to M7 and varies with the SD card used.

Of course, I would like to have faster startup time as well :).

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I find it strange that he blames the lag only on metering when clearly part of the delay is caused by having to close the M11 shutter before it can open again to begin the exposure.

He did say: "The shutter lag time of the M11 is, due to its new open-type shutter mechanism, a few milliseconds longer" . However, the added lag caused by metering is typically much bigger than the lag saved by EFCS (link).

[SrMi]

25 minutes ago, 105012 said:

The widely quoted figure is about 20ms, in any case, fast enough that there is no perceptible lag. Every time the same, never any variation. 

Thanks!

Note that RedDotForum measured the shutter lag to be 13ms. A Sony a7rIV, after half-pressing, with EFCS is 22ms (imaging-resource numbers).
It is possible that RedDotForum measured with metering locked or off, while Jesko's numbers are with metering on. If that is the case, then the shutter lag of M11, with metering locked, would be equal to or faster than the excellent M3.

[stephan54]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

 

Many good photographers anticipate and have the camera ready. They never wait for startup to be completed. If that does not work for you, you can use @jonoslack's recommendation:

... Under Menu / Camera Settings / Power saver mode I have Camera Standby set to Off, and Display Standby set to 30 seconds. This works very well, wake up is almost instant ...

FWIW, startup time is similar to M7 and varies with the SD card used.

Of course, I would like to have faster startup time as well :).

I agree with you and hdmesa and put it partly into practise, but sometimes the camera is switched off and a sudden opportunity comes along. Then I am too late, but from using a Nikon D700 I know that Leica is relatively slow at start up.

Edited July 2, 2022 by stephan54

[hdmesa]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Thanks!

Note that RedDotForum measured the shutter lag to be 13ms. A Sony a7rIV, after half-pressing, with EFCS is 22ms (imaging-resource numbers).
It is possible that RedDotForum measured with metering locked or off, while Jesko's numbers are with metering on. If that is the case, then the shutter lag of M11, with metering locked, would be equal to or faster than the excellent M3.

I wonder if the M11 lag he's quoting is the lag between shots versus the lag to take a shot. I just tried my M11 here next to me: full press versus half-press hold then take the shot – zero perceptible difference to capture the shot. I also have the M4-P sitting next to me, and I can't tell the difference between that and the M11 with regard to time from press to exposure. I do have my M11 set to permanent exposure preview (versus "off" or "on half-press"), so maybe that speeds it up? IDK.

[hdmesa]

17 minutes ago, stephan54 said:

I agree with you and hdmesa and put it partly into practise, but sometimes the camera is switched off and a sudden opportunity comes along. Then I am too late, but from using a Nikon D700 I know that Leica is relatively slow at start up.

I understand where you're coming from, but this issue is not exclusive to Leica. Time to power-on has also been criticized for every mirrorless I've owned when reading forums or FB groups. The common advice is to flip the power switch while the camera is still at your side and when you first recognize the opportunity – then it's always ready by the time you bring it up to your face. If you wait to switch any mirrorless on until it's up at eye level, you'll miss the shot.

[MrPaulK]

2 hours ago, 105012 said:

50 to 125ms! That’s up to an eight of a second! My M3’s will best this M11 every time. Immediate response, no need for half presses, das wesentliche.

How long is it before you can see/use the image after exposure?

[105012]

1 hour ago, MrPaulK said:

How long is it before you can see/use the image after exposure?

In my mind’s eye, I saw it before I took the picture.

[MrPaulK]

1 hour ago, 105012 said:

In my mind’s eye, I saw it before I took the picture.

Then lag shouldn’t matter, you already know when to press.

[105012]

6 minutes ago, MrPaulK said:

Then lag shouldn’t matter, you already know when to press.

...but how frustrating to sometimes wait a perceptible eighth of a second for the slow machine to respond. It's a Leica for goodness sake!

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, 105012 said:

...but how frustrating to sometimes wait a perceptible eighth of a second for the slow machine to respond. It's a Leica for goodness sake!

It is not a problem as long as it bothers only people who don’t use the M11 😉.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[fil-m]

I have used the M11 on a full 7-8h walking trip down the city center to both enjoy and take candids. Always on, no "delay" issue. I would only turn it off during lunch break etc. It would not even exhaust the battery and I remember still having 45-50% left back home. Battery life is amazing.

Obviously a faster startup time is mostly welcome in future firmwares or newer models but with the above recommendation  ("Power saver mode I have Camera Standby set to Off") there should not be a practical issue.