OMG! The prices!

[Topsy]

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16 hours ago, Anbaric said:

" a brass top that will never bubble, "

I have an M9 that has bubbled paint on the top and bottom plates.

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, Topsy said:

I have an M9 that has bubbled paint on the top and bottom plates.

Bet that wouldn't happen with the now deeply unfashionable black chrome instead of black paint. The paint job on digital Leicas, even leaving aside that special edition M-10R with paint that's designed to come off, doesn't seem terribly robust. Most of the M9s and M240s I see on sale at dealers have visible brassing, sometimes worse than a Barnack camera from the 1930s.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Anbaric

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, Tomsmac said:

Nah. The M6 is the most popular because some hipster with an audience said it was.

You could probably plot the spike in prices against numbers of views of those M6 YouTube videos with hundreds of thousands of hits. That said, a TTL meter is a pretty basic thing that most decent cameras have had since the1960s. It's not surprising that people want one of the more 'affordable' Leica models that offers this useful feature.

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, Ornello said:

It's amazing what nonsense hipsters believe, and how easily they can convince other hipsters to believe the same thing. Consider their embrace of LPs ('vinyl'), which just a few years ago were given up for dead. I can't wait for them to discover 'shellac' 78s, then Edison cylinders. Shellac is back, baby!

 

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Death Metal on an Edison cylinder:

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[Huss]

19 hours ago, Danner said:

 

The M6 is a relatively late model, reasonably priced (for an M) with a range of shooter conveniences, namely, the swivel tip film advance, angled rewind knob, built-in light meter, rapid film load, coupled ISO selector/rememberer, and all 6 viewfinder frame line sets.  I have two, and sent one in for the "MP finder upgrade".  IME, there isn't a significant improvement when comparing to the non-upgraded body.  The TTL is couple millimeters taller, which IMHO is necessary bulk, and has TTL flash metering, which I do not want.  The M7 has an electrically time shutter and a DX code reader, both of which IMHO are undesirable in an all-mechanical film camera.

Flip side to that is the M7 has a much more accurate meter and shutter, is much quicker to use, and has better viewfinder info.

I have the MP (and others ) as well as the M7, and if the point was to get the shot the M7 is the camera to take.  I get the reasoning for an all mechanical camera, but I also get it for an electronic one too.  Battery reliance is less important to me than film reliance.  It's easier to carry extra batteries than extra film, but we never complain about carrying extra film!

[Huss]

4 hours ago, Topsy said:

I have an M9 that has bubbled paint on the top and bottom plates.

That's what happens when the sensor corrosion spreads.

[RayD28]

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10 hours ago, Matlock said:

What you say makes sense, however the constant talk of circuit failure with the M6/M6TTL only fuels the unnecessary paranoia regarding these very reliable cameras. Yes any camera can fail but it is still a very rare occurrence (except, maybe, among members of this forum).

I have a 1976 Olympus OM-2. Light meter  and shutter still spot on. 

[AZD]

I may have fallen victim to / added to the price hikes myself. After deciding I’d like a rangefinder to compliment my Nikons, I started checking out M3’s, being a 50mm user primarily. This was in early 2021. Of course it seemed prices immediately started climbing up (even faster) every week. In the end I paid maybe a little too much for a very clean 1955, no preview lever, converted to SS. I recently got a late DR Summicron with pristine glass for what I considered to be a very fair price in the current market. The combination is every bit as good as the hype. I’m not disappointed in the least. 
 

I still kind of shake my head at it all. But it was a matter of getting it now and using it, vs. gambling on lower prices later. Now of course I’d love to see the market tank… an M2 or M4 sure would be nice. I prefer to have two similar bodies in any system for quick lens or film speed changes.

[madNbad]

35 minutes ago, AZD said:

I may have fallen victim to / added to the price hikes myself. After deciding I’d like a rangefinder to compliment my Nikons, I started checking out M3’s, being a 50mm user primarily. This was in early 2021. Of course it seemed prices immediately started climbing up (even faster) every week. In the end I paid maybe a little too much for a very clean 1955, no preview lever, converted to SS. I recently got a late DR Summicron with pristine glass for what I considered to be a very fair price in the current market. The combination is every bit as good as the hype. I’m not disappointed in the least. 
 

I still kind of shake my head at it all. But it was a matter of getting it now and using it, vs. gambling on lower prices later. Now of course I’d love to see the market tank… an M2 or M4 sure would be nice. I prefer to have two similar bodies in any system for quick lens or film speed changes.

Don’t ever think you have over paid or got less for a sale than expected. In the mid 1980s, I paid $1400 usd for a barely used M6 with a 50 Summicron. It was traded away several years later and I always lamented it. Years later, there was a M6 TTL that I used for a while until it was traded as partial payment on a M6 TTL Millennium. That was much loved, pampered and sold for a fraction of today’s rates. Your early M3 is an example of the camera that truly changed reportage photography. TheDR Summicron was designed for the M3, enjoy using the combination and disregard the market forces.

[grahamc]

I've come into this late but my first film M was an M6.    

I bought it simply because I wanted a light meter in the camera and couldn't justify MP pricing, and it is a beautiful camera.  Quite simple really and M6 is still half the price.

I think it should be really easy to understand the popularity of the M6 in this context.  I can't say why the prices have rocketed though but quite easy to see why M6 is a common and very logical choice 

Who outside of this forum is going to know or care that the top plate is zinc, or the TTL variant is 1mm higher ( obviously way too high and of course doomed to failure....or NOT), that the m3 would've been a far better choice, or that it was lucky it wasn't an M5 because they suck so much they almost sank the company ?

😂

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, grahamc said:

Who outside of this forum is going to know or care that the top plate is zinc, or the TTL variant is 1mm higher ( obviously way too high and of course doomed to failure....or NOT), that the m3 would've been a far better choice, or that it was lucky it wasn't an M5 because they suck so much they almost sank the company ?

Not only in  this forum, so many other fora and bloggers do care 🤒.

Our-nice-Internet world 😉

[grahamc]

54 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Not only in  this forum, so many other fora and bloggers do care 🤒.

Our-nice-Internet world 😉

That's very true Arnaud!  

Very easy though to see why many would choose M6, and be extremely happy with it .

First M with a light meter, way cheaper than current MP and.... a LEICA it shouldn't be surprising  

I am sure the new generation of users is probably way less comfortable with the thought of a meter-less camera than most people here, so that's probably high in the wish list of 'features' . Meaning there are only 2 choices, I think.

Well M7 .. but EVERYONE knows that doesn't count .  Don't they ? 😂

  

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[Tomsmac]

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

I've come into this late but my first film M was an M6.    

I bought it simply because I wanted a light meter in the camera and couldn't justify MP pricing, and it is a beautiful camera.  Quite simple really and M6 is still half the price.

I think it should be really easy to understand the popularity of the M6 in this context.  I can't say why the prices have rocketed though but quite easy to see why M6 is a common and very logical choice 

Who outside of this forum is going to know or care that the top plate is zinc, or the TTL variant is 1mm higher ( obviously way too high and of course doomed to failure....or NOT), that the m3 would've been a far better choice, or that it was lucky it wasn't an M5 because they suck so much they almost sank the company ?

😂

And yet today you can buy a brand new MP or MA for $4,100 (Red Dot Cameras) and the average price for an M6 is about $3,100 - $3,500. Why in the world would anyone not buy a new MP instead of the M6?

[grahamc]

17 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

3 hours ago, grahamc said:

I've come into this late but my first film M was an M6.    

I bought it simply because I wanted a light meter in the camera and couldn't justify MP pricing, and it is a beautiful camera.  Quite simple really and M6 is still half the price.

I think it should be really easy to understand the popularity of the M6 in this context.  I can't say why the prices have rocketed though but quite easy to see why M6 is a common and very logical choice 

Who outside of this forum is going to know or care that the top plate is zinc, or the TTL variant is 1mm higher ( obviously way too high and of course doomed to failure....or NOT), that the m3 would've been a far better choice, or that it was lucky it wasn't an M5 because they suck so much they almost sank the company ?

😂

And yet today you can buy a brand new MP or MA for $4,100 (Red Dot Cameras) and the average price for an M6 is about $3,100 - $3,500. Why in the world would anyone not buy a new MP instead of the M6?

It's a good point but I think anyone looking for an M6 is going to easily find one for US$2800 - $3000.  I mean you could randomly click one on the world's most expensive auction site and find one for that.  

A new MP is $5695 , or $4500-$5000 used.

If we consider people save for years to afford that $2800 analogue camera, how can it be surprising to any of us that M6 is a popular choice.  

In fact it's a great choice 

Used Leica M4 black chrome or silver chrome is $1800 also.   M-A used $4000-5000
 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[grahamc]

@Tomsmac I share your surprise at some of the prices out there though, believe me. 

Just really saying that these are very good reasons M6 is a go-to choice for many , and an excellent one at that 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[a.noctilux]

Really crazy if this is real world (as said, I don't mind having nothing to sell/buy).

In Marseille, second hand M6 TTL is 100€ less  than M-A ( link ),

3,590€ (M-A) 3,490€ M6 TTL same store.

another M6 Classic 3,290€ Leica Store Paris

[Tomsmac]

2 hours ago, grahamc said:

It's a good point but I think anyone looking for an M6 is going to easily find one for US$2800 - $3000.  I mean you could randomly click one on the world's most expensive auction site and find one for that.  

A new MP is $5695 , or $4500-$5000 used.

If we consider people save for years to afford that $2800 analogue camera, how can it be surprising to any of us that M6 is a popular choice.  

In fact it's a great choice 

Used Leica M4 black chrome or silver chrome is $1800 also.   M-A used $4000-5000
 

Nope. A brand new MP or MA can be found for $4,100 at Red Dot Cameras, a well respected authorized Leica dealer and Leica will honor the warranty. Shipping to the US is $100.

[grahamc]

38 minutes ago, Tomsmac said:

Nope. A brand new MP or MA can be found for $4,100 at Red Dot Cameras, a well respected authorized Leica dealer and Leica will honor the warranty. Shipping to the US is $100.

Actually they can't.  

At Red Dot Cameras there is an M6 in stock at 2300 pounds (USD2800) and brand new M-A's and MP's at 4100 pounds (USD5100).

Whichever currency you look at that in the M6 is 'only' just over half the price of either 

Or are you looking at the ex-VAT prices for the MP /M-A....  3416 pounds (USD4250).    Is there not import duties on the US side to get those items into the states ?

But aside from that domestic purchasers can't buy the ex-VAT price so the fact remains the M6 is significantly cheaper. At half the cost will be better suited to some  (most ?) purchasers 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by grahamc

[Tomsmac]

25 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Actually they can't.  

At Red Dot Cameras there is an M6 in stock at 2300 pounds (USD2800) and brand new M-A's and MP's at 4100 pounds (USD5100).

Whichever currency you look at that in the M6 is 'only' just over half the price of either 

Or are you looking at the ex-VAT prices for the MP /M-A....  3416 pounds (4250).    Is there not import duties on the US side to get those items into the states ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right now on their website it shows a new BP Black paint for 3,416 pounds. ($3,800 US) Presumably without VAX. But regardless, the question still stands, why would anybody but a used M6 over a brand new MP for a discount of 25%. And buying in the UK allows us to save on the sales tax. I’m coming to the conclusion that the M6 is, while a good camera, overhyped. And now with the hipster movement even more overhyped. 
 

Buy a brand new MP and get all of the features of a used M6 plus a full two year warranty and a perfect working camera plus a perfect, working meter.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

I get what you are saying but I’m not sure the facts on pricing are correct for most purchasers (let’s say domestic) .  Because I thought what we are talking about is why m6’s are so popular.  
 

lets say I’m buying in the UK and a Uk resident , in fact let’s say I’m a hipster aswell just for fun. 
 

im going to walk into red dot cameras and the M6 is going to cost me 56% of the MP. I’m not interested in the M-A because I’m a hipster and don’t know what I’m doing. 
 

I look at the MP, it’s gorgeous. It’s also way out of my league.  I’ve been saving my pay cheques and walk out extremely happily with the M6. 
 

You only have to look on other camera or lifestyle forums which have a younger demographic to know that people literally save for years to buy these things.  So It’s a pretty logical argument.  
 

in your scenario of exporting to the US at 3416 pounds , the conversion at today’s rate is 4250 USD. I don’t know what import taxes you guys get charged in the US but I’m guessing that saving of VAT at the point of purchase is going to go straight back on at the entrance to USA in the form of import duties  .