OMG! The prices!

[DoubleE]

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I guess you could call the one I got excellent.  Two tiny pen point dents near one strap lug.  One or two very light scratches on the top plate.  Coupe of chips in the vulcanite. 

21 minutes ago, logan2z said:

That's about the going rate for one in Ex condition these days, so what you paid isn't far off.  They've probably nearly doubled in price in the past 3-4 years. 

 

[ianman]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:14 PM, a.noctilux said:

When I think that my M6 from 1985 was about 3,000€ new, and I can (could?) sell about same price, that is crazy.

Are you not forgetting about inflation?

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[a.noctilux]

18 minutes ago, ianman said:

Are you not forgetting about inflation?

Ian, of course no.

5,608€ (for 2021 and 20kFF 1985)

I don't need/want to sell anyway.

[Matlock]

15 hours ago, colint544 said:

Available at Red Dot Cameras today. A 40-year-old M4, or a brand new, with warranty M-A. £4100 - take your pick!

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Yes but a Chrome M4 is shown at £1600 so not a fair comparison.

[RayD28]

13 hours ago, DoubleE said:

I just paid $1800 all in for a single stroke, 1960 vintage, M3.  It's in very nice condition cosmetically with excellent rangefinder optics, but it turned out it could use a CLA which will add another $300 or so to the cost.  It's with Sherry Krauter at the moment, hopefully ready sometime this week.  Maybe I overpaid, but after some weeks of looking it's about the best I could find.

You are the going same route as I did about seven years ago.  Bought M3 and had to send it to Sherry for a new shutter curtain.  Barring any major accidents, your camera will be good to go 10 to 20 years, maybe longer.    

[colint544]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

Yes but a Chrome M4 is shown at £1600 so not a fair comparison.

What's unfair about pointing out that a shop is selling a 40-year-old black chrome M4, and a brand new black chrome M-A for exactly the same price, on a thread about the rocketing price of old Leica M cameras, and the thread is titled "OMG! The prices!"? 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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18 hours ago, Huss said:

We love zinc bubbles.

The M6 is clearly a downgrade versus all its predecessors. The only thing it has going for it is the meter that are slowly failing. The Brass M4-2 and M4-P are better value.

I don’t dislike the M6 as much as I Value and appreciate the M2-M3-M4 and M5 to what they truly are: magnificient cameras. Top Quality unmatched by the M6. That is all.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, colint544 said:

What's unfair about pointing out that a shop is selling a 40-year-old black chrome M4, and a brand new black chrome M-A for exactly the same price, on a thread about the rocketing price of old Leica M cameras, and the thread is titled "OMG! The prices!"? 

It is a little unfair as the black chrome M4s always attract a price much higher than the 'normal' silver chrome. The  better analogy would have been to compare the Silver Chrome M4 at £1600 with the Silver Chrome M-A at £4100.

[Tomsmac]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The M6 is clearly a downgrade versus all its predecessors. The only thing it has going for it is the meter that are slowly failing. The Brass M4-2 and M4-P are better value.

I don’t dislike the M6 as much as I Value and appreciate the M2-M3-M4 and M5 to what they truly are: magnificient cameras. Top Quality unmatched by the M6. That is all.

Thank you for your contribution. I’m strongly looking at a M4-2 now. And yes indeed, apparently much better value even including a $325 CLA.

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The M6 is clearly a downgrade versus all its predecessors. The only thing it has going for it is the meter that are slowly failing. The Brass M4-2 and M4-P are better value.

I don’t dislike the M6 as much as I Value and appreciate the M2-M3-M4 and M5 to what they truly are: magnificient cameras. Top Quality unmatched by the M6. That is all.

Thankfully most people disagree with you. The M6 is a downgrade in your eyes but not to most people. I have M3, M2, M1 (not really relevant here), M4, M4-2, M4-P. M5. M6TTL and M7. My favourite is the M7 closely followed by the M6TTL although I do think the M5 is superb. All except the M3 and M1 get regular use. I often pair up my M6TTL with my M10-D and they make a great team if I require film and digital.

[adan]

1 hour ago, colint544 said:

What's unfair about pointing out that a shop is selling a 40-year-old black chrome M4, and a brand new black chrome M-A for exactly the same price, on a thread about the rocketing price of old Leica M cameras, and the thread is titled "OMG! The prices!"? 

That particular camera is an outlier - black, black chrome, and therefore relatively rare among M4s - and in exceptionally good condition (from the photos). Which, as we know, bumps the price up a lot from the median, in collecti-world. Far right side of the bell-curve.

M4 production dropped significantly after the 1971 introduction of the M5. About 500 were made in 1972,  none were made in 1973, and there are only 1820 or so 1975/Wetzlar M4s in existence. (And none in 1976-77 - the "end of the M system" until ELCAN began making the M4-2 in 1978)

BTW - in 2022, a camera made in 1975 is 47 years old.

Edited May 16, 2022 by adan

[colint544]

14 minutes ago, Matlock said:

It is a little unfair as the black chrome M4s always attract a price much higher than the 'normal' silver chrome. The  better analogy would have been to compare the Silver Chrome M4 at £1600 with the Silver Chrome M-A at £4100.

I noticed that Red Dot Cameras are selling a new black chrome M-A alongside a 40-year-old M4, and both cost £4100. Two near identical cameras in specification and finish. That reflects the steep rise in price for vintage Leica M cameras. Which this thread is about. I find that remarkable. I thought it made the point nicely, and I put it on the thread.

But hey, perhaps you're right, and your analogy about the chrome M4 being much cheaper than the new M-A makes the point more succinctly.

[colint544]

2 minutes ago, adan said:

That particular camera is an outlier - black, black chrome, and therefore relatively rare among M4s - and in exceptionally good condition (from the photos). Which, as we know, bumps the price up a lot from the median, in collecti-world. Far right side of the bell-curve.

M4 production dropped significantly after the 1971 introduction of the M5. About 500 were made in 1972,  none were made in 1973, and there are only 1820 or so 1975/Wetzlar M4s in existence. (And none in 1976-77 - the "end of the M system" until ELCAN began making the M4-2 in 1978)

BTW - in 2022, a camera made in 1975 is 47 years old.

My arithmetic is terrible! And you're right. I actually have a black chrome M4. It's a 1974 model, and I bought it in 2016 from Red Dot Cameras. It was mint, and it cost £1550. Definitely more than a chrome M4, or an M6. But the price now reflects an incredibly steep rise.

[madNbad]

2 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The M6 is clearly a downgrade versus all its predecessors. The only thing it has going for it is the meter that are slowly failing. The Brass M4-2 and M4-P are better value.

I don’t dislike the M6 as much as I Value and appreciate the M2-M3-M4 and M5 to what they truly are: magnificient cameras. Top Quality unmatched by the M6. That is all.

Zinc became the material of choice for the M4-2. A small number of early ones have brass top plates, some of those left over from M4 production. By the time the M4-P arrived, all of the top plates were zinc until the Millennium series of 2000.

[Matlock]

8 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Zinc became the material of choice for the M4-2. A small number of early ones have brass top plates, some of those left over from M4 production. By the time the M4-P arrived, all of the top plates were zinc until the Millennium series of 2000.

Very true and Leica made a big thing about it when the zinc top plate was introduced. It seems that there had been a number of brass M4 top plates that deformed so zinc was introduced to overcome the problem.

[Tomsmac]

I love this community!

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

OMG! The prices!

It's not just used kit. I say that every time I look at the M11 and some of the new M lenses, too. 😵

[tom0511]

I think the cool thing about M6 is that, IMO it was designed as a modern camera to be used.

The MP caught up the same features, put it in a shiny nice built camera, without any innovations.

I agree the MP feels a little nicer and shiny, but in the end the M6 just can do the same for less money.

By the way I own both, if I had to sell one it would be the MP (But just because I have owned and used the M6 for long long time)

[madNbad]

In late 2018 I bought a “LN” chrome M4 from a online seller. It was like new after four hundred dollars worth of work. Unbeknownst to me, the same week I bought my M4, an elderly photographer from central Oregon brought a box of gear into one of the local shops. Along with the pristine M3, virtually unused M2, O series replica and a pile of Barnacks was a black chrome M4. It was still in the box and he had never used it. The shop sold it for $750 to someone who couldn’t get their wallet out fast enough.

Edited May 16, 2022 by madNbad

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, madNbad said:

Zinc became the material of choice for the M4-2. A small number of early ones have brass top plates, some of those left over from M4 production. By the time the M4-P arrived, all of the top plates were zinc until the Millennium series of 2000.

With respect of your writing, I invite you to verify on M4-2 and M4-P*.

I was toll that my multiple M4-2/M4-P have brass top plate.

I tend to believe as some of them have some "bangs" and/or bumps and many have scratches.

 

*maybe because black chrome of M4-2/M4-P top doesn't brass ?

Edited May 16, 2022 by a.noctilux