cbgrey Posted March 11, 2022 Share #1 Posted March 11, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All...I'm relatively new to Leica but not photography. I've had a fun (though expensive) journey so far. Started with an M240 last year. Upgraded to an M10 for better low light capability then purchased an M11 that I got a week or so ago. My lenses are usually Summilux 50mm, Summilux 35mm FLE and a couple of Voigtlanders at the extreme focal lengths. I really like the results I have been getting from the M10 but frustrated by the hardware (battery life, bottom plate (sorry, I hate it ) and lack of connectivity. I absolutely LOVE the hardware of the M11 but my image results have been flat, dingy, lifeless....I'm comfortable post processing (though not a master) but I just can't seem to get solid results. If I kick up color and contrast the files seem to get "crunchy" or "blotchy". Are others experiencing this? Any advice on settings or other workflow I can try to be happier with my results? I don't hate what I'm seeing but I'm not loving it and for the cost....I really need to love what I'm seeing and need to be 100% sure the M11 is my path forward before letting the M10 find a new home. If you're inclined here are a couple of sample Flickr albums taken just a week apart (granted one is outside vs inside but it's still a good comparison of what I've run into). M10: https://www.flickr.com/gp/digichrome64/15qG9E M11: https://www.flickr.com/gp/digichrome64/875nL3 These are admittedly just albums of snapshots so be kind I'll appreciate any thoughts, advice or guidance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 11, 2022 Posted March 11, 2022 Hi cbgrey, Take a look here I love my M11 hardware but I'm really struggling with image quality. Any advice?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted March 11, 2022 Share #2 Posted March 11, 2022 I've just looked at both sets of images and I'm not seeing any reason for disappointment. What am I missing? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhusick Posted March 11, 2022 Share #3 Posted March 11, 2022 I hope you don't mind, but I grabbed one of your photos and did a quick edit in Lightroom. Here are the before and after... Let me know if this is the type of correction you are looking for. I did this with a small bump in exposure, increasing White levels, decreasing Black, decreasing Highlights, and adding Clarity. Brad Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330624-i-love-my-m11-hardware-but-im-really-struggling-with-image-quality-any-advice/?do=findComment&comment=4399104'>More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 11, 2022 Share #4 Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, fotografr said: I've just looked at both sets of images and I'm not seeing any reason for disappointment. What am I missing? Same here. Quote ... but my [M11] image results have been flat, dingy, lifeless.... I'm not seeing that. At all... Edited March 11, 2022 by Herr Barnack 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 11, 2022 Share #5 Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) What post-processor do you use? Many tools have an Auto button that can get you started. Edited March 11, 2022 by SrMi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Journey Posted March 11, 2022 Share #6 Posted March 11, 2022 I have read that the raw colors for the m10 and m11 are different so if you are using your m10 color profiles on m11 files the resulting colors won’t be the same. I use a standard color profile for all my outdoor pictures as a starting point and are happy with the results. Also, when shooting outdoors, many have suggested to not use auto white balance as the setting for that isn’t optimal. I use sunny for outdoors and auto for indoors. I am happy to share my preset if you want to check it out. It’s nothing fancy but works for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted March 12, 2022 Share #7 Posted March 12, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 55 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Same here. I'm not seeing that. At all... Have to agree. A few files are a little flatter, I suppose, but the skin tones are far superior to the 10 IMO. Regardless, it takes a bit of time to get used to the output per conditions and how to get want you want. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen.s1 Posted March 12, 2022 Share #8 Posted March 12, 2022 I like the 11 much nicer than the 10... go figure... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted March 12, 2022 Share #9 Posted March 12, 2022 2 hours ago, cbgrey said: Hi All...I'm relatively new to Leica but not photography. I've had a fun (though expensive) journey so far. Started with an M240 last year. Upgraded to an M10 for better low light capability then purchased an M11 that I got a week or so ago. My lenses are usually Summilux 50mm, Summilux 35mm FLE and a couple of Voigtlanders at the extreme focal lengths. I really like the results I have been getting from the M10 but frustrated by the hardware (battery life, bottom plate (sorry, I hate it ) and lack of connectivity. I absolutely LOVE the hardware of the M11 but my image results have been flat, dingy, lifeless....I'm comfortable post processing (though not a master) but I just can't seem to get solid results. If I kick up color and contrast the files seem to get "crunchy" or "blotchy". Are others experiencing this? Any advice on settings or other workflow I can try to be happier with my results? I don't hate what I'm seeing but I'm not loving it and for the cost....I really need to love what I'm seeing and need to be 100% sure the M11 is my path forward before letting the M10 find a new home. If you're inclined here are a couple of sample Flickr albums taken just a week apart (granted one is outside vs inside but it's still a good comparison of what I've run into). M10: https://www.flickr.com/gp/digichrome64/15qG9E M11: https://www.flickr.com/gp/digichrome64/875nL3 These are admittedly just albums of snapshots so be kind I'll appreciate any thoughts, advice or guidance. With most of CMOS sensors "upgrading" to "high" ISO often brings same result. You are getting so-so images on mathematically amplified "high" ISO, but nature light ISO sucks more and more. I lost my interest in Leica rendering @M10, 11 is not difference. Rather get SL line... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
opera207 Posted March 12, 2022 Share #10 Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said: With most of CMOS sensors "upgrading" to "high" ISO often brings same result. You are getting so-so images on mathematically amplified "high" ISO, but nature light ISO sucks more and more. I lost my interest in Leica rendering @M10, 11 is not difference. Rather get SL line... SL line is no difference too, there is magenta switch problem on sl2-s. I think building a post style with personal characteristics has long-term benefits, better than being limited by cameras. Edited March 12, 2022 by opera207 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboy Posted March 12, 2022 Share #11 Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) Despite what others say, no matter what camera all images sooc look a bit flat compared to whatever company processed images used to sell a camera and say it's solely from the new sensor. Need to spend time creating custom presets that satisfy ones liking or build on others presets. I think David Farkas has some presets over at red dot forum to use as a base to build upon... It's just that the M11 makes it easier for PP since they saturated the colours more Even decisive moments were 'developed' by master printers. Ie analogue equivalent of digital darkroom processing All the best Edited March 12, 2022 by cboy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idusidusi Posted March 12, 2022 Share #12 Posted March 12, 2022 You could also try Overgaard custom profiles for Capture One or Lightroom whichever you use. I use C1 and I have no complaints with the test photos I took at the Leica Store with an M11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idusidusi Posted March 12, 2022 Share #13 Posted March 12, 2022 I took your image into C1, applied Color Overgaard Film Look Warmer 6300K. I am no expert either, and this is all very subjective and different to everyone's taste. This would be my result and additionally I made the small changes in the screenshot in C1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330624-i-love-my-m11-hardware-but-im-really-struggling-with-image-quality-any-advice/?do=findComment&comment=4399274'>More sharing options...
fcracer Posted March 12, 2022 Share #14 Posted March 12, 2022 It’s quite normal for a high dynamic range sensor to have RAW images that appear more flat. All you need to do is apply a contrast S curve or just increase the contrast slider. If you compare the RAW file to the in-camera JPEG, you’ll see a dramatic difference in contrast. I had the same experience when going from an XPro2 to a GFX. The XPro2 was crushing the blacks which gave a wonderful contrasty look to the images, whereas the GFX had so much more content in the shadows which made the RAW look flat. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojay Posted March 12, 2022 Share #15 Posted March 12, 2022 Looks like a nice bunch of family memories. Biggest difference I see is that most of the M10 shots are outdoors, M11 indoors, different processing needs. Maybe just give yourself more time with the M11. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 12, 2022 Share #16 Posted March 12, 2022 59 minutes ago, idusidusi said: I took your image into C1, applied Color Overgaard Film Look Warmer 6300K. I am no expert either, and this is all very subjective and different to everyone's taste. This would be my result and additionally I made the small changes in the screenshot in C1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! You've managed to blow a great slab of highlight detail from the wall. 'Film look'? You must be joking! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 12, 2022 Share #17 Posted March 12, 2022 It's usually taken me at least a month to "dial in" the handling of files from a new digital camera. By which point I've figured out some/many things to save as "new Camera Raw defaults" (or similar in software of one's choice) - meaning I rarely have to bother with them again - they automatically get applied to all new pictures from that camera from then on. One good idea is to take one photograph that is generally good (not pushing the envelope of exposure or lighting or offbeat colors or contrast) - and experiment on just that picture with each of the possible settings independently. Contrast, White/Black points, highlights/shadows, Clarity may appear to be interchangeable controls, but with a little experience studying what they actually do, they are not really substitutes for one another. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idusidusi Posted March 12, 2022 Share #18 Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ouroboros said: You've managed to blow a great slab of highlight detail from the wall. 'Film look'? You must be joking! I found the wall ugly, hence highlight increase to make it less ugly as to me it is the least interesting part of the subject. On film look, I could agree. What settings would you make to improve on mine? Edited March 12, 2022 by idusidusi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbgrey Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share #19 Posted March 12, 2022 I really appreciate everyone's time in looking at my images and providing feedback. I'm very happy that the results in the album look good (IQ wise) to many of you. What isn't expressed in the results is how much work it took to get there. I fully acknowledge that this is a "me" problem not a camera problem if that wasn't clear from my original post. I really love the M11. Part of my frustration is feeling like I went through this same issue when I moved to Sony mirrorless for 6 years (between Nikon DSLRs and Nikon Z systems). I always struggled trying to get the results I liked from Sony. With Nikon Z...it only took some tweaking out of camera for me to get there. I'd stay with Nikon Z but really want the compactness of a Leica system. In the end, some of you said maybe I just need more time with the M11 and that's likely true. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
idusidusi Posted March 12, 2022 Share #20 Posted March 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, cbgrey said: In the end, some of you said maybe I just need more time with the M11 and that's likely true. Agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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