knutm Posted February 2, 2022 Share #1 Posted February 2, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear all, I am planning to get an M11 when it will be available (my first M then) and planned to start with a combination of the Summilux 50mm and the Elmarit 28mm (street). With the M10, the Elmarit 28mm seems to receive very good feedback - in some cases it was mentioned, that for higher resolutions "in future M cameras", the "modern lenses" (like the Summilux 28mm) would be recommended. Have to say, that I hesitate to go directly with two Summiluxes (50 + 28) - also given that the Summilux 28mm would need a significantly higher budget (and is heavier), that I could use for a third lense later. And the Summicron 28mm would be somewhere in-between. best, Knut Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 2, 2022 Posted February 2, 2022 Hi knutm, Take a look here Is the Elmarit 2,8/28mm Asph also recommended for the M11?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 2, 2022 Share #2 Posted February 2, 2022 Don't expect a Summilux to be "better". It is faster and has a slightly different rendering wide open, but as soon as you stop down to 2.8 you will struggle to see any difference in you image. Resolution ( as long as it is better than 40 LP/mm which all Leica lenses exceed by a large margin) is not very relevant . If you are not an f1.4 shooter the only real difference will be the weight of the lens, but that will be compensated by the weight loss of your wallet. In other words :if you don't want the speed, buy the Elmarit, certainly if you have to ask. The whole sensor/lens argument is built on a false idea. A lens-sensor combination is an additive one, not a weakest link system. BTW, that Summilux 50 is a lovely lens and combines well with the Elmarit 28 6 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 2, 2022 Share #3 Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jaapv said: but as soon as you stop down to 2.8 you will struggle to see any difference in you image. Mmmmmm - I would say more like f/4-5.6. The optical gymnastics required to achieve a usable f/1.4 usually improve IQ in the other "fast stops." Both the 28 Summicron and Summilux equal or surpass the Elmarit ASPH at f/2.8. Especially out beyond 16mm from the image center (the Elmarit was designed considering the crop of the M8 - and for absolute compactness). However, the really "future-proof" M lenses are going to have "APO" in the name - with a price to match. An "even better" APO-Summilux will come along sometime, as will an APO-Elmarit. Equally "however" - like Jaap, I'd still start with the Elmarit ASPH, because "grams to lpmm for dollars (or preferred currency)" it is darn good, and especially for "street" (smaller apertures anyway for DoF and zone focus; ultimate compactness). Then upgrade, if you find it is letting you down in some way. (Personally I use the Elmarit-M v.4 (1993-2006) because I find it "smoother" than the ASPH, while still very sharp. But it is bigger - and older.) Edited February 2, 2022 by adan 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted February 2, 2022 Share #4 Posted February 2, 2022 The 50 lux and either the 28/2 or the 28/2.8 would make for a terrific set. If you plan to take street photos with the 28, you might like having the higher speed of the 28/2, unless all your street photos will be taken in bright light or of non-moving subjects. The 28/1.4 is much heavier and more expensive but has an artistic rendering wide open that appeals to many. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 3, 2022 Share #5 Posted February 3, 2022 I agree with many of the qualitative comments above. The M 28 Elmarit-asph and the 28/Summicron got upgrades a few years back. While the comment "good enough for the M8" was supported to some extent by the MTF curves published with the Elmarit-asph, which was introduced with the M8 (and the first new M lens that I bought), the upgraded 28 Elmarit asph is noticeably stronger at the edges of the frame. I'm currently using it, along with the 50/2 APO and 75/2 APO. I also need to try the 21 and 18 Super Elmars, now that I have a VF2. The 50 and 28 Sumiluxes will also have a role, but they are more "showy" when wide open. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knutm Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted February 3, 2022 So my understanding is: the Summit 28/2.8 would be a good choice and I could think about investing into a Summicron 28/2 for higher speed and maybe close-ups. Thank you very much for your answers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 3, 2022 Share #7 Posted February 3, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 9 minutes ago, kurpfalz said: So my understanding is: the Summit 28/2.8 would be a good choice and I could think about investing into a Summicron 28/2 for higher speed and maybe close-ups. Thank you very much for your answers. The 28 Elmarit is a lovely lens - sharp and excellent - it won't let you down with an M11! 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 3, 2022 Share #8 Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/2/2022 at 8:27 AM, onasj said: The 50 lux and either the 28/2 or the 28/2.8 would make for a terrific set. The 50 Summilux ASPH and the 28 Summicron ASPH v.1 have served me well through many generations of M cameras, up to and including the M10 Monochrom and M10-R. But there are many other pairings that I’m sure would not have left me wanting much in the end result… a fine print… given the quality of Leica options and considering all of the other important workflow variables. We tend to like what we use a lot and get comfortable with. Jeff 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted February 3, 2022 Share #9 Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, jonoslack said: The 28 Elmarit is a lovely lens - sharp and excellent - it won't let you down with an M11! I have the current version of the 28/2.8 Elmarit. It is an incredibly good lens. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted February 4, 2022 Share #10 Posted February 4, 2022 I have both the first version of the 28/2.8 Elmarit ASPH and the latest version of the 28/2.0 Cron ASPH. I love the size and handling of the Elmarit, though the difference to the Cron in size is not substantial. However, the Elmarit is more contrasty and I find the Cron to have an overall more pleasant look. This is of course subject to taste. As mentioned earlier, both are technically very good lenses, with the cron having a slight advantage. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilsen Posted February 5, 2022 Share #11 Posted February 5, 2022 I have both the elmarit and the summicron (latest versions), for my M10R. Going from the m10 to the r, they got "better" imho. I imagine the same will be the case for the m11. Both are excellent, I doubt you'll feel any dissapointment with the elmarit. I like the summicron slightly more, but i cant express why. The images just have something about them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted February 5, 2022 Share #12 Posted February 5, 2022 Just a note of caution that the newer version of the 28/2.8 ASPH is demonstrably better in the corners than the original 28/2.8 ASPH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knutm Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share #13 Posted February 5, 2022 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Kwesi: Just a note of caution that the newer version of the 28/2.8 ASPH is demonstrably better in the corners than the original 28/2.8 ASPH. Thanks for all answers! Was planning to go for the current / new version of the 28/2.8 - now waiting for the M11 to arrive … 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanmao Posted November 12, 2022 Share #14 Posted November 12, 2022 I own the current version of the 28mm/2.8ASPH lens and I love it for its sharpness and compact size. I also have a current version of the 50mm/1.4ASPH lens. The image is still excellent under the blessing of a large aperture. I like this silver version very much because it is made of brass. Their combination basically allows me to complete all my amateur shooting activities. I am now getting ready to buy a new generation m11 black addition. Coupled with 28/2.8 will have a magical effect. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted November 12, 2022 Share #15 Posted November 12, 2022 elmarit is amazing, small, high resolution, no distortion, nothing can be improved. it is a perfect lens. the summicron is also amazing, great bokeh, shart, slight distortion but bigger, significantly bigger. IF you like to use at f2, if you enjoy bokeh and your photo rely on subject separation then summicron. if you like details, sharpness and objective photography then elmarit is better, as it costs less, it is smaller and same performance (maybe better distortion control) and f5.6. I have both, I used the 2.8 with yellow filter with a MM for years, the f2 is seldom used (too big). Lately I prefer the myazaki 28 f2, as it is super small and at f5.6 onwards is ok-ish for what I do. But the elmarit... that is perfection. G> most images done with 28mm here: papa-antonutto.com 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuna Posted November 13, 2022 Share #16 Posted November 13, 2022 I’ve exclusively used the current 28 Elmarit ASPH with my M11 and am primarily a street shooter - I’ve posted some images in the “M11 images” thread here if you are interested in what I have been able to achieve with the lens…2.8 is more than enough speed and the size and weight are just right… 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted November 14, 2022 Share #17 Posted November 14, 2022 The original 28mm/2.8 Elmarit ASPH was NOT only designed for the Leica M8, I think, despite being released coincidentally in the same year (2006). It seems to me like the original 28mm/2.8 ASPH was optimized for film cameras. I got one in 2007 and it really was quite good into the corners on film at f/5.6-f/11 with my M7. It was not bad on the M9 either. However, the updated 28mm/2.8 ASPH version is MUCH better for full frame digital cameras with decent corner sharpness. I also used to have the first generation 28mm/2 Summicron ASPPH, but that was really not very good in the corners on any of my digital Leica bodies, so I sold it this past summer. I suppose the new Summicron 28mm version is much improved also, but I have gravitated to the 35mm focal length now, so I would not bother with the faster lens, but that is just me. Your milage may vary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimichurri Posted November 16, 2022 Share #18 Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) On 2/4/2022 at 12:16 AM, knutm said: So my understanding is: the Summit 28/2.8 would be a good choice and I could think about investing into a Summicron 28/2 for higher speed and maybe close-ups. Thank you very much for your answers. I wouldn’t worry about “can this lens resolve my sensor” thing. I think it’s all nonsense. Get the lens you want. They’ll all work fine. It’s just the M10R and M11 aren’t as forgiving. The files have more megapixels and detail and you’ll see the flaws more. That’s my experience. The “lens can’t resolve this sensor” thing I think is a myth. Edited November 16, 2022 by Chimichurri 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 16, 2022 Share #19 Posted November 16, 2022 The Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v2 would show higher contrast and resolution than v1 on center but it would be the opposite on the corners according to Reid reviews. I mean on M cameras, SL's behaving differently. RR wrote this in 2016 though. On M11 i see no reason to upgrade my 28/2.8 asph v1 but it is still a bit more contrasty than the Summicron whose IQ i find overall more pleasant. Matter of tastes as usual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Blanko Posted November 17, 2022 Share #20 Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) Am 16.11.2022 um 13:36 schrieb lct: The Elmarit 28/2.8 asph v2 would show higher contrast and resolution than v1 on center but it would be the opposite on the corners according to Reid reviews. I mean on M cameras, SL's behaving differently. RR wrote this in 2016 though. On M11 i see no reason to upgrade my 28/2.8 asph v1 but it is still a bit more contrasty than the Summicron whose IQ i find overall more pleasant. Matter of tastes as usual. I would be reluctant to rely on his review dating back to 2016 for making conclusions regarding the current M11. The M10 was introduced 2017 and IMHO the M10 had better micro lens design for improving corner sharpness and reducing color cast in the corners. Newer generations have been further improved in said respect. On my M10-R, the current version of the 28 Elmarit performs great. I would not expect that this is different on an M11. Edited November 17, 2022 by Robert Blanko 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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