A running tally of M11 complaints so far

[jaapv]

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34 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I hope the Leica Look is preserved!

Errmm.  Define please? The look of the colours is set mostly by the postprocessing. Must I send each and every of my files to Leica to run through their version of Photoshop?

[opera207]

6 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

I've noticed this on occasion, as well as lags on occasion. I seriously doubt this is a hardware issue. It feels like problems in software related to mulit-tasking or prioritization. Feels like the camera is prioritizing doing something else at the expense of responding to the UI. 

But strangely, many m11 work fine. if it’s a software problem, it should be shown on all cameras.

I tried slow down my operation, rest the camera and click slowly, it still has malfunction.

Also I appointed same function to the top and back wheel buttons, the frequencies of malfunction are different.

So I think it might be a hardware problem.

Edited January 20, 2022 by opera207

[charlesphoto99]

15 minutes ago, Artin said:

funny thing is the M10R colours are the furthest away from the M9 

Then learn to post process. I find I can make my 8/9/10/10R files all work together just fine. 

[Tailwagger]

11 minutes ago, opera207 said:

But strangely, many m11 work fine. if it’s a software problem, it should be shown on all cameras.

I tried slow down my operation, rest the camera and click slowly, it still has malfunction.

Also I appointed same function to the top and back wheel buttons, the frequencies of malfunction are different.

So I think it might be a hardware problem.

Not strange at all.  There are hundreds of combinations of software options and modes. That's the nature of bugs, they are corner cases that eluded testing. One could make exactly the opposite assertion. If it's a problem with a physical switch, it should fail permanently, not be intermittent. And what are the odds that multiple buttons of completely different types on multiple cameras are all failing intermittently.  So not to me, no.  This reeks of a software problem. 

[setuporg]

Another reason added complexity leads to bugs.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

funny thing is the M10R colours are the furthest away from the M9 

I am not saying we should strive for M9 colors, but which color profile did you use? 
For those using Adobe software, let's wait for Adobe's full support of M11 before judging the colors. PROFILE M11 looks like a stop-gap solution to me. Cobalt Standard seems to work much better.

[SrMi]

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1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

Not strange at all.  There are hundreds of combinations of software options and modes. That's the nature of bugs, they are corner cases that eluded testing. One could make exactly the opposite assertion. If it's a problem with a physical switch, it should fail permanently, not be intermittent. And what are the odds that multiple buttons of completely different types on multiple cameras are all failing intermittently.  So not to me, no.  This reeks of a software problem. 

Physical switches are notorious for "Wackelkontakt" (loose contact); sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't. So it may not be a race condition that causes intermittent failure. 

[Tailwagger]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Physical switches are notorious for "Wackelkontakt" (loose contact); sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't. So it may not be a race condition that causes intermittent failure. 

Perhaps, but again, this is being seen, AFAICT, on the FN and center button, perhaps the top plate one.  I haven't yet noticed anyone complaining about MENU or PLAY where theres been nothing untoward that Ive seen.  Those are mode switches, where as the others relate to stuff mucking about with the display while it's live. If it were a bad batch of switches, this is not what I'd expect to see. Equally, if its some issue with interrupt prioritization while in the middle of metering or display refresh, etc, this is exactly what I'd expect to see.  Armchair diagnosis, for sure, which very often can be misguided, but given we already expect a firmware update in a month of so, it suggests, as I mentioned elsewhere, that perhaps the firmware was a little rushed. 

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Perhaps, but again, this is being seen, AFAICT, on the FN and center button, perhaps the top plate one.  I haven't yet noticed anyone complaining about MENU or PLAY where theres been nothing untoward that Ive seen.  Those are mode switches, where as the others relate to stuff mucking about with the display while it's live. If it were a bad batch of switches, this is not what I'd expect to see. Equally, if its some issue with interrupt prioritization while in the middle of metering or display refresh, etc, this is exactly what I'd expect to see.  Armchair diagnosis, for sure, which very often can be misguided, but given we already expect a firmware update in a month of so, it suggests, as I mentioned elsewhere, that perhaps the firmware was a little rushed. 

Some cameras do not have any issues. Some cameras have issues all the time (after reset). The software should be the same across all of them. That is why lean towards a hardware issue. Leica may mitigate it with some software patch, as Hasselblad did in X1D.

[Tailwagger]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

Some cameras do not have any issues. Some cameras have issues all the time (after reset). The software should be the same across all of them. That is why lean towards a hardware issue. Leica may mitigate it with some software patch, as Hasselblad did in X1D.

Let's agree then to differ.  The code may be the same, but the timing, configuration, outside inputs are all random and completely different.  Lag on button presses, which I and other have experienced, are not hardware... unless we're talking about things completely unrelated to buttons like fluctuations in power or bad mojo mother boards.  

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, Tailwagger said:

Let's agree then to differ.  The code may be the same, but the timing, configuration, outside inputs are all random and completely different.  Lag on button presses, which I and other have experienced, are not hardware... unless we're talking about things completely unrelated to buttons like fluctuations in power or bad mojo mother boards.  

What happened with X1D is that the hardware component tolerances were larger than what software expected. 

[Tailwagger]

10 minutes ago, SrMi said:

What happened with X1D is that the hardware component tolerances were larger than what software expected. 

Again, I'm not ruling out hardware, though I'd be very, very surprised if it was the buttons themselves given the circumstances.  It of course could be anything, from power to a microcode bug. But most often when something deterministic goes tilt, it rolls over, kicks up all fours and just lies there. Rare that things come back to life after a few seconds as they have when Ive had an issue with a button press. That has a very familiar smell to it. All speculative, but personally I'm not sending back my camera at this point until it's clear there is a clear reason to. 

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Again, I'm not ruling out hardware, though I'd be very, very surprised if it was the buttons themselves given the circumstances.  It of course could be anything, from power to a microcode bug. But most often when something deterministic goes tilt, it rolls over, kicks up all fours and just lies there. Rare that things come back to life after a few seconds as they have when Ive had an issue with a button press. That has a very familiar smell to it. All speculative, but personally I'm not sending back my camera at this point until it's clear there is a clear reason to. 

AFAIR, with X1D it was a capacitor tolerance issue, not the switch/dial.

[willeica]

3 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Which is why, as the saying goes, 'youth is wasted on the young.'

But some of them won't be young then. When I mentioned recently to my tech savvy grandson, currently aged 25 so he will be 75 in 50 years from now, that some photographers were dabbling with crypto art/photography sites he responded " In a word Grandad, don't". I quickly reassured him that I was just asking out of curiosity. It did reassure me, though, that youth is not always wasted on the young. My Bit Coin comment was, of course, tongue in cheek. An M11 is currently a 'here and now' artefact, which may or may not have some value beyond its normal 'use by' date. 

William 

[Tailwagger]

Just now, willeica said:

My Bit Coin comment was, of course, tongue in cheek.

As was mine. If I'm honest, I was a lot sharper in my 20's and 30's than I am today.  Possibly hard to believe given my posts, but far more of a PITA as well. 😉

[FlashGordonPhotography]

8 hours ago, opera207 said:

Function buttons failing intermittently is not just a “complaint “, it’s REAL folks, my m11 has been sent back to the service center and I am considering to get a new one or just wait for the m11p. I have a social media group with 20 m11 users, 5 of them have sent their m11 back due to this problem!

 

Absolutely. And I hope your camera is sorted or replaced asap. I'm not having any issues but I'll keep an eye out. I appreciate you reporting it. It's a shame real issues get lost in a swamp of frivolous crap about *Sony colours* and *live view always on* that's all.

Gordon

[shirubadanieru]

8 hours ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Then learn to post process. I find I can make my 8/9/10/10R files all work together just fine. 

If we all make post processing a huge step in how our final shots look like, why do people make a fuss over how red or yellow is slightly more saturated in a camera sensor VS the other? At the end of the day you will either increase the saturation as you please, or even change the tonality of the red as you please, so I don’t think we need to nitpick the sensor colors, as long as they offer good colors..it’s ok. I can definitely say that my final file definitely looks very different from the initial DNG, in any camera I’ve owned. 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

as long as they offer good colors..it’s ok.

But therein lies the rub - the spectral characteristic of the Bayer colour filters and the subsequent in-camera processing will certainly have an effect on the final outcome. We can get close to matching colours across cameras - indeed I find colour processing the most important part of my workflow- but there will always be subtle differences. Having said that, this does not justify ascribing a "colour look' to any camera.

[Overgaard]

12 hours ago, setuporg said:

Yes the review is reassuring although it does say the M11 colors are more saturated.  I hope the Leica Look is preserved!

 

In the tech brief today, product manager Jesko mentioned that "The Leica M11 profile (in Lightroom) is more saturated. I recommend to try both and see what. Use Adobe Standard for more muted natural colors."

(See from 45:20 where Bill Brown asked about the profiles)

 

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[shirubadanieru]

By the way, not sure if anyone else is experiencing this but after reading the reviews I’m surprised. My battery using rangefinder only, while setting it to go to sleep after 5min, and not looking at the screen…is very far from what’s been advertised (1700 SHOTS on rangefinder). I’m getting from 100% to 40% after an afternoon out, shooting about 100 shots in DNG M-Size. What is going on?!  

Edited January 22, 2022 by shirubadanieru