A running tally of M11 complaints so far

[setuporg]

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So, if you peruse the new sub forum thoroughly, you can see complaints about:

annoying always-on live view shutter mode

shutter noise, clunk upon turning on

shutter open all the time gathering dust

function buttons failing intermittently 

camera freezing without a clue as to why

the thin sensor still not helping with wide lenses in the corners

Sony colors

confusing EVF display implementation 

Edited January 19, 2022 by setuporg

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

So, if you peruse the new sub forum thoroughly, you can see complaints about:

annoying always-on live view shutter mode

shutter noise, clunk upon turning on

shutter open all the time gathering dust

function buttons failing intermittently 

camera freezing without a clue as to why

the thin sensor still not helping with wide lenses in the corners

Sony colors

confusing EVF display implementation 

But, thankfully, we haven't had any complaints about the lack of the plastic protective sheet on the baseplate, (oh wait a moment...)

[sebben]

And it’s way too expensive. 
 

$9000 vs the list price of $6400 of the M10. Makes no sense 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, sebben said:

And it’s way too expensive. 
 

$9000 vs the list price of $6400 of the M10. Makes no sense 

Not so long ago $6400 was considered way too expensive for a camera that had limited capabilities compared to others on the market.............It's a sign of the times I guess.

[Matlock]

53 minutes ago, sebben said:

And it’s way too expensive. 
 

$9000 vs the list price of $6400 of the M10. Makes no sense 

In the UK there is only £400 difference (£7500 as opposed to £7100 for the M10-R).

[mmx_2]

Way back in 2007 the M8 sold for 40 000SEK here in Sweden, the M9 was introduced at 57000SEK (2009) whereas the M240 was actually cheaper at 54000SEK (2013, which might have been a currency effect at that time since the Swedish krona is free floating), M10 at 70 000 SEK (2017), M10-R 89000SEK (2020) and now M11 is 90790SEK (2022). At the same time we have of course had an inflation effect, and if we take the 2007 40000SEK as base, that would be:

(on this site you can do the calculation yourself, the statistics are from the SCB, the official National statistical centre, https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/prisomraknaren/)

2007 40 000SEK

2009 41 262,96 SEK

2013 43 242,22 SEK

2017 44 354,38 SEK

2020 46 258,25 SEK

2021* 47 257,30 SEK

*2022 numbers are not available yet

So, compared to 2007, yes, Leica gear has become much more expensive. We are talking about the "base model" except for the M10-R. Of course one must also bear in mind that a 2007 M8 is of course not comparable to a 2022 M11, but it is still interesting to see the development. Also top models of Nikon and Canon have become "more expensive" maybe not exactly to the same extent as Leica gear: A D6 is 78000SEK, A 1DX 87000SEK.

Another thing to consider is that the development of digital cameras was much faster 2007-2013 compared to today. An M240 compared to a M8 was a huge step in terms of ISO-improvement and image quality, whereas the M10 compared to the M11 is for most users maybe not such a big improvement for rel life usage (but this is a subjective value).

 

Just my 2 cents ;).

 

[sebben]

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11 minutes ago, Matlock said:

In the UK there is only £400 difference (£7500 as opposed to £7100 for the M10-R).

The M10R is also overpriced.

I’m talking about the original M10. The price increases are insane and bare no relation to Inflation either. This seems to be Blackrock cashing in on customer loyalty 

[stefanusj]

2 hours ago, Matlock said:

But, thankfully, we haven't had any complaints about the lack of the plastic protective sheet on the baseplate, (oh wait a moment...)

$9000, and they don't include a bottom plastic sticker ???? what a cheap move. LOL.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

Way back in 2007 the M8 sold for 40 000SEK here in Sweden, the M9 was introduced at 57000SEK (2009) whereas the M240 was actually cheaper at 54000SEK (2013, which might have been a currency effect at that time since the Swedish krona is free floating), M10 at 70 000 SEK (2017), M10-R 89000SEK (2020) and now M11 is 90790SEK (2022). At the same time we have of course had an inflation effect, and if we take the 2007 40000SEK as base, that would be:

(on this site you can do the calculation yourself, the statistics are from the SCB, the official National statistical centre, https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/prisomraknaren/)

2007 40 000SEK

2009 41 262,96 SEK

2013 43 242,22 SEK

2017 44 354,38 SEK

2020 46 258,25 SEK

2021* 47 257,30 SEK

*2022 numbers are not available yet

So, compared to 2007, yes, Leica gear has become much more expensive. We are talking about the "base model" except for the M10-R. Of course one must also bear in mind that a 2007 M8 is of course not comparable to a 2022 M11, but it is still interesting to see the development. Also top models of Nikon and Canon have become "more expensive" maybe not exactly to the same extent as Leica gear: A D6 is 78000SEK, A 1DX 87000SEK.

Another thing to consider is that the development of digital cameras was much faster 2007-2013 compared to today. An M240 compared to a M8 was a huge step in terms of ISO-improvement and image quality, whereas the M10 compared to the M11 is for most users maybe not such a big improvement for rel life usage (but this is a subjective value).

 

Just my 2 cents ;).

 

IIRC the M8 in 2006 was 4190 Euro and the M9 in 2009 was 4190 Euro... As a comparison, the price of petrol has doubled since then...

[Fotoklaus]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb sebben:

And it’s way too expensive. 
 

$9000 vs the list price of $6400 of the M10. Makes no sense 

Is there a concierge service included to "defrost" your M11?

[Fotoklaus]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

So, if you peruse the new sub forum thoroughly, you can see complaints about:

annoying always-on live view shutter mode

shutter noise, clunk upon turning on

shutter open all the time gathering dust

function buttons failing intermittently 

camera freezing without a clue as to why

the thin sensor still not helping with wide lenses in the corners

Sony colors

confusing EVF display implementation 

Any camera sold for 1/10 of the price with those issues would be blast on every website.

[wizard]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb sebben:

The price increases are insane and bare no relation to Inflation either.

I agree with you, but there is an easy fix. Just don't buy any item which you think is overpriced. If enough people act the same way, chances are that the price will come down. 

[Matlock]

In the UK a Leica M4 cost £336 in 1971 (Wallace Heaton Blue Book). With inflation that would be £5,060 today. That makes the M11 at £7,500 look like a bargain.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Fotoklaus said:

Any camera sold for 1/10 of the price with those issues would be blast on every website.

These are individual complaints, not issues, and even as complaint some are baseless (for instance a camera that has Live View cannot function with the shutter closed, nor can it meter exposure off the sensor..🙄  )

And Sony colours? Assuming that it means anything at all, it only shows up that the settings of the complainer's lightroom are wrong (see also Sean Reid on the colours - they are very close to the M10) 

[charlesphoto99]

Obviously disposable cash for luxury goods is not an issue in the world right now considering how many are willing to dump perfectly fine year old or less $9k cameras for the latest shiny 'ring.' 

[onasj]

Many of these "complaints" aren't problems with the camera but the nature of metering off the sensor, or aren't even complaints at all (no extra benefit to thinner stack in the corners of wide-angle frames?  Does anyone think that's a significant basis for complaint?). You should hear all the noises the $50,000 Phase One IQ4-XF makes when you turn it on—makes the M11 sound like a baby sleeping.

In any case, no one is forcing anyone to buy the M11.

[digitalfx]

57 minutes ago, onasj said:

Many of these "complaints" aren't problems with the camera but the nature of metering off the sensor, or aren't even complaints at all (no extra benefit to thinner stack in the corners of wide-angle frames?  Does anyone think that's a significant basis for complaint?). You should hear all the noises the $50,000 Phase One IQ4-XF makes when you turn it on—makes the M11 sound like a baby sleeping.

In any case, no one is forcing anyone to buy the M11.

annoying always-on live view shutter mode- a complaint by some is a feature to others

shutter noise, clunk upon turning on- never really noticed it

shutter open all the time gathering dust- LOL

function buttons failing intermittently - have not experienced this

camera freezing without a clue as to why- have not experienced this

the thin sensor still not helping with wide lenses in the corners- Jury is out, I see a definite improvement on older and wide lenses

Sony colors- Seriously?

confusing EVF display implementation- Not sure what this means...the Leica display is simple imo,  maybe they have never seen a Sony

[Dr. G]

Not specifically M11 related, but there is a rumor that a Q3 may be on the horizon - possibly with the M11 sensor.  Once of the reasons I moved away from Sony was because the colors took a long time to correct in post.  I have had no issues with my Leicas in that regard.  Can someone who owns the M11 comment on the color science?  I was looking to get my name on a list for the Q3, but would reconsider if the colors aren't in line with the more recent Leica cameras.

[wizard]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Dr. G:

... but would reconsider if the colors aren't in line with the more recent Leica cameras.

Most M11 users point out that the colors are even better (skin tones etc.) than with the previous M10 and M10R, so those colors should be very much in line with what more recent Leicas offered.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, digitalfx said:

...the thin sensor still not helping with wide lenses in the corners- Jury is out, I see a definite improvement on older and wide lenses...

One of the harshest critics around agrees with you:

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2022/20220116_1100-LeicaM11-BestEverM.html

There is something odd about the Leica M11—the lenses do not look right. Don’t panic—I mean that in a good way: there seems to be less degradation of lens performance (ray angle effects). The new sensor is surely involved, but perhaps the sensor cover glass could have been thinned-out and thus reducing the 'hit' to optical performance?