Why I will not be getting a M11...

[MrFriendly]

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I won't be getting a M11 because in reality it's M10.5, not M11.  Some even dared to call it a revolution, ha.

[Kwesi]

29 minutes ago, MrFriendly said:

I won't be getting a M11 because in reality it's M10.5, not M11.  Some even dared to call it a revolution, ha.

Well now you've gone and done it.

I was just about to put my advance order in for an M12, then I realized that in reality its just going to be an M11.5 😀

[cboy]

13 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

I won't be getting a M11 because in reality it's M10.5, not M11.  Some even dared to call it a revolution, ha.

Gotta agree with you there. Given the points raised by Nick I'm more convinced the new features of M11 caters more towards fine art / large printing and the core of the M remains the same and not revolutionary from a design/technical standpoint....it certainly hasn't won ( yet) any design awards.

The red dot design award Leica won was for the Leica T and M60... More 'revolutionary' than the M11.

For myself the only thing appealing is the m8 like saturated colours

Edited March 16, 2022 by cboy

[Tailwagger]

18 hours ago, Kwesi said:

I was just about to put my advance order in for an M12, then I realized that in reality its just going to be an M11.5 

No worries, you had it right.  These 100 post newbies fail to realize that the 240 was the 10, the 10 was the 11.  Therefore, your pre-order for a 12 is spot on. 😛

[IkarusJohn]

Why do I get the sense that the forum has changed over the last while - many people seem so tense.  Historically, the forum has been a pleasant, respectful place to visit.  Sure, we had guns, Brexit and a few other hot topics, which were entertaining in their own ways, but recently the gear threads have also been running hot.  

I get that APS-C owners are pissed that it seems Leica is going to discontinue that format (I have a TL2 and two TL lenses - I get it), but this is not the end of the World, nor does it signal the end of Leica and, no, they have not become the devil incarnate with every camera system failing, but bling for oligarchs!  I suspect the pressures of covid, economic stress and conflict in Ukraine isn’t helping, but really?  Maybe it’s just a whole lot of new members, which suggests new Leica owners who have come across from DPReview.  New owners is a good thing, right?

Which brings me back on topic.  The M11.

There has been a lot of exploration online and analysis of the new camera (and over thinking - this is the Leica forum, right?).  Speaking for myself, the camera interested me.  I wanted to hear from the horse’s mouth what the camera was about, so I waited for the release.  When it broke cover, we all unpicked what was new, myself included.  Then, we made decisions about whether or not the camera was for us, and what it meant for the future of the M system.  This is all entirely fair and reasonable, to my mind.  It’s not for me, but others are very happy.  

There are a number of things we can be very sure if - the camera is well built and well conceived; the image quality will be superlative; there will be bug fixes and firmware upgrades; and there will be variants, which will be interesting.  

[lct]

25 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I get that APS-C owners are pissed that it seems Leica is going to discontinue that format (I have a TL2 and two TL lenses - I get it), but this is not the end of the World, nor does it signal the end of Leica and, no, they have not become the devil incarnate with every camera system failing, but bling for oligarchs!

We've seen much worse. Death of the M5 and film CL. Death of the R9. Abandonment of the R10. Death of the R system. Replacement of RF by EVF... oops not yet .

[Siriusone59]

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23 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Why do I get the sense that the forum has changed over the last while - many people seem so tense.  Historically, the forum has been a pleasant, respectful place to visit.  Sure, we had guns, Brexit and a few other hot topics, which were entertaining in their own ways, but recently the gear threads have also been running hot.  

 

I too have noticed this.  Phrases taken out of context, quotes that are changed, meanings added that have nothing to do with the post...just so someone can form an argument and spill a little blood in the water to attract more sharks.  I've even seen a moderator or two take part in the melee (but to their credit, I don't think they saw the whole picture).  I wonder if it's something in the water or maybe some need another booster shot.🤔

Either way it's been nothing but harmful to this forum and I'm certain that it makes people think twice about posting.  I know I hate to respond or answer any question posted even though no one else bothers to respond... from reading daily and past experience that shows the respondent will get attacked by someone that has nothing to add to the discussion.

It wasn't like that not too long ago... I'll go put on my flame retardant suit now. 

[IkarusJohn]

To be honest, what tends to happen is that the flame throwers get bored, or take their own advice and buy a Sony 😀

[lct]

You were not on the forum when it was not moderated folks. This one is a paradise of peace by comparison .

[Ray Vonn]

There's wonderful manual cameras and lenses to talk and share experiences about.  And then there's status.  Which always seems to eventually result in the atmosphere being unsavory.

[relms]

I’m the words of Rodney King, “Why can’t we just get along?”

[SoarFM]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:42 AM, bernstein1234 said:

I feel that investing in lens is also better in value.

Well, with no focus motors or electronics, your lens is likely to outlast your digital M by a large margin,  but we are somewhat dependent on the camera itself to provide the best vehicle for that lens performance, i.e. sensor glass covering design.

It seems correct that 24 megapixels really is enough, but the M10R and the M11 provide that extra bit of resolution headroom along with other improvements in camera and sensor design design but these are marginal improvements. It is a good place to be.

All that being said, I did just take delivery of an M11 and barring unforeseen circumstances, my M10R will be sold. I have other “backups”. My initial take on the M11 is that it is a more refined version of the M10R. 

I’m not kidding about the 24 megapixels though, I’m still keeping my CL and lenses and I still use it regularly, it’s what goes in my backpack while bicycling.

[pgk]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:24 PM, IkarusJohn said:

Why do I get the sense that the forum has changed over the last while - many people seem so tense.

To me there seems to be less objectivity than there was. In the past there were really helpful discussions about aspects of Leica equipment. But the build up to the M11 had a great deal of hype included (it seems to be the way marketting is going) so there were raised expectations rather than much genuine discussion about what was really relevant (there still isn't IMO). But then my background in in photographic science so I probably have a fundametally different view about using specific equipment for specific job.

[Kwesi]

I mean here we are, 35 pages and counting on why some won't buy the M11 and of course the rebuttals.

Lets face it five pages would have been enough - of course people are tense.

And yes it feels there are many new owners who have bought the M for status and now would like it to behave like their do everything cameras that they are more comfortable using.

[John Smith]

I have curiously followed all the M11 threads, thinking that I might want to upgrade my M10R. Yesterday, I ran across a reviewer's YouTube video about the M11 and noticed he had the new Visoflex and grip on his. I took out my 50mm APO on my SL2 and sat it next to a tricked-out M10M. That did it for me. I won't be getting an M11. It presents too many complications. First, you probably want a thumb grip or a regular grip because of the weight. (Maybe not, but digital Ms aren't light.) Then, you probably do want to use the new Visoflex if you are using a 50mm lens or longer. But you can't use it if you have a thumb grip on it. So you add the regular grip. Then, you need to adjust your auto ISO to 1/4x or something close to it to have sharp pictures (suggestion of Leica Australia). Then, you have to think about the fact that there are really only two small, workable M lenses (35mm APO and 50mm APO) that can take advantage of the sensor (per Karbe's SL lens presentation). Leica probably has some new M lenses coming down the pike, but they are sure to be pretty pricey. The SL2 is a more elegant solution than a tricked-out M.

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Edited March 22, 2022 by John Smith

[Jeff S]

29 minutes ago, John Smith said:

Then, you have to think about the fact that there are really only two small, workable M lenses (35mm APO and 50mm APO) that can take advantage of the sensor (per Karbe's SL lens presentation). Leica probably has some new M lenses coming down the pike, but they are sure to be pretty pricey.

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Again, that’s not how it works, as Roger Cicala explains at the end of Jono’s review (“Why Perceptual Megapixels are Stupid”). All quality lenses (virtually all Leica lenses) benefit from the higher MP sensor: the overall system improves. Same way it works on your M10M compared to a standard M10 or M246.

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11.html

Karbe understandably touts his latest marvels, but these aren’t the only ones that can take advantage of the new sensor.  And then there are unique rendering characteristics of older lenses that higher resolution might better reveal.

Jeff

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

The SL2 is a more elegant solution than a tricked-out M.

This is why there's choice. The M11/M10-R experience for M lenses is well beyond the SL2, AFAIC.  I find the need for an adapter, lack of M auto zoom, difficult with accurate focus with ultra-wides and the associated corner smearing to be quite inelegant. And yes, I own all three. YMMV, of course. 

[setuporg]

6 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

And yes, I own all three. YMMV, of course. 

This makes for a good signature!:)

[John Smith]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Again, that’s not how it works, as Roger Cicala explains at the end of Jono’s review (“Why Perceptual Megapixels are Stupid”). All quality lenses (virtually all Leica lenses) benefit from the higher MP sensor: the overall system improves. Same way it works on your M10M compared to a standard M10 or M246.

https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m11.html

Karbe understandably touts his latest marvels, but these aren’t the only ones that can take advantage of the new sensor.  And then there are unique rendering characteristics of older lenses that higher resolution might better reveal.

Jeff

It is how it works. Cicala’s article is not wrong, but Karbe’s statements on lens performance aren’t either. There is a difference between a higher MP sensor raising the bar for all lenses and lenses that can match the resolving power of the higher pixel count. I don’t know why people can’t understand that.

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[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, John Smith said:

there are really only two small, workable M lenses (35mm APO and 50mm APO) that can take advantage of the sensor 

 

This is what you wrote.  And it’s wrong.

Jeff