Why I will not be getting a M11...

[Dennis]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Why I will not be getting an M11 (soon)

Yesterday I shoot a very simple picture with my M10 w/ 2.8/35 ZM at infinity and f4 ....

Click on the photo to see higher rez.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

with 24MP ... no bad at all!

I can only imagine with a 60MP, maybe we would probably appreciate the passenger faces on the airplane windows ... ✈️  

I'm super with 24MP, so far so good.

What about an M11-P with just 24MP only. Respecting the 100gr difference-approach between silver and black version, the rumor says the 36MP will cost 40% less ...

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Dennis

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[tom0511]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Jacobjuul:

It makes zero difference to YOU which is great and I've only tried the M11 in the store so I shouldn't be commenting really. I am sure the shutter lag is practically 0, but you can definitely feel the shutter come back up after taking the shot (coming back up to be ready for metering again). It's all just preference really. None is better than the other, but there IS a difference in feel (no matter how ridiculous you or I think it is to worry about it). 

Spot metering is better for some (who like to spent more time on their exposure), while multi matrix metering is better for people who want to get the shot quickly (or beginners/less experienced people).

The cool thing is with the M11 you can choose between spot, center weighted and Matrix. The one and only disadvantage I could see would be a very slightly longer lag (or the different feel of shutter-noise) or more battery consumption (which doesnt hurt because of the bigger capacity of the new battery). I come from being used to the "classic" exposure metering from M6, over all digital Ms, for my part I am absolutly sure I can get more reliable exposure with the new metering options. For a M11-D this should be an even bigger advantage. 

[charlesphoto99]

14 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

 

• Better image quality: since there is more room inside, M11 has better flare resistance than M11; situations where M10 would show reflections and ghost effects may be eliminated with M11 (source: Leica).

But some of us actually love flare - the whole idea for me is that Leica rangefinders move one beyond boring 'perfection' and introduce the serendipity of what one cannot actually see at the time of taking the image due to the OVF. This is an M9 shot, but one gets the idea. Of course in commercial shooting situations one wants to control that as much as possible, but what with the emphasis on EVF, 60MP, etc etc it's just moving too far away from the M ethos for me. To me, it's a camera that's supposed to make you work and not hand it all on a platter. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[M11 for me]

There is no reason NOT to buy an M11. Everything is better. And re the price. I traded in my M10 and after 5 years with the M10 I did not pay more for the upgrade than I pay for upgrading my Canon gear (recently from 5D MkIV to R5). The "running" cost of the M-System are not higher than with another brand. Just the entry into the system is a bit special 😝

Edited February 4, 2022 by M10 for me

[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto99 said:

But some of us actually love flare - the whole idea for me is that Leica rangefinders move one beyond boring 'perfection' and introduce the serendipity of what one cannot actually see at the time of taking the image due to the OVF. This is an M9 shot, but one gets the idea. Of course in commercial shooting situations one wants to control that as much as possible, but what with the emphasis on EVF, 60MP, etc etc it's just moving too far away from the M ethos for me. To me, it's a camera that's supposed to make you work and not hand it all on a platter. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I hear you regarding the joy of discovering the unexpected and that is definitely special. I think what Leica is aiming for isn't so much perfection as transparency. In that scenario, the body itself is neutral allowing you to choose a lens based on its own attributes, mating that with an ISO and processing to taste. I'm in my third week of working with the M11 after having shot with the M9, 240, 246 and 10 platforms, believe me you still have to work for it.

[charlesphoto99]

30 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I hear you regarding the joy of discovering the unexpected and that is definitely special. I think what Leica is aiming for isn't so much perfection as transparency. In that scenario, the body itself is neutral allowing you to choose a lens based on its own attributes, mating that with an ISO and processing to taste. I'm in my third week of working with the M11 after having shot with the M9, 240, 246 and 10 platforms, believe me you still have to work for it.

You are right, I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I just think this idea of 'perfect' is overblown in this day and age, and not just regarding cameras. Lots of photographers out there still doing fantastic work with point and shoot film cameras. At the end of the day, it's all about the photograph. 

[IkarusJohn]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 hours ago, tom0511 said:

The cool thing is with the M11 you can choose between spot, center weighted and Matrix. The one and only disadvantage I could see would be a very slightly longer lag (or the different feel of shutter-noise) or more battery consumption (which doesnt hurt because of the bigger capacity of the new battery). I come from being used to the "classic" exposure metering from M6, over all digital Ms, for my part I am absolutly sure I can get more reliable exposure with the new metering options. For a M11-D this should be an even bigger advantage. 

But I already have spot, multi-field/matrix and centre-weighted metering with my M10-D …

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, M10 for me said:

There is no reason NOT to buy an M11. Everything is better. And re the price. I traded in my M10 and after 5 years with the M10 I did not pay more for the upgrade than I pay for upgrading my Canon gear (recently from 5D MkIV to R5). The "running" cost of the M-System are not higher than with another brand. Just the entry into the system is a bit special 😝

Oh, no!  There are many reasons not to buy an M11:

• you like what you have, and it does everything the M11 does
• it’s a waste of resources and bad for the environment to just keep upgrading to the latest shiny new thing
• many people (most?) just can’t afford it
• it is very unlikely to give you better photos (okay, perhaps put another way - if you have an digital M, in reality your images will still be good)

One reason to buy an M11 is if you don’t have a Leica M already, or the one you have has died.

[Jeff S]

Time to change his name to ‘M11 for me’.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

This whole thread is baffling.  It’s title (why I won’t be getting an M11) is informative, I guess.  But it is full of posts from people saying why everyone should get one, or why people’s reasons are wrong.  Strange.

I realise that when people make uninformed posts about my cameras (particularly the M Edition 60 when I had one, and the M10-D), I also correct the misapprehension.  I rationalise this to himself by saying that I’m correcting misinformation.  But am I really just defending my purchase?

[orcinus]

I don't know why other people should get one, or whether they should, or why someone's reasons are wrong, but i'll tell you this:

M11 will be my first digital M.
I had absolutely no impetus to buy one until now.

[M11 for me]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

This whole thread is baffling.  It’s title (why I won’t be getting an M11) is informative, I guess.  But it is full of posts from people saying why everyone should get one, or why people’s reasons are wrong.  Strange.

I realise that when people make uninformed posts about my cameras (particularly the M Edition 60 when I had one, and the M10-D), I also correct the misapprehension.  I rationalise this to himself by saying that I’m correcting misinformation.  But am I really just defending my purchase?

Oh, thats not true. Do you really want to stay in the echo chamber and nobody with the positive attitude towards the M11 is allowed to enter? I believe that it needs some contrasting posts here 🤭

[M11 for me]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

Time to change his name to ‘M11 for me’.

Jeff

If I knew how to go about I would go for it . . .

[Jeff S]

29 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

If I knew how to go about I would go for it . . .

I’m sure the mods can advise you. You can hit the report button, top right, and ask.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

32 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Oh, thats not true. Do you really want to stay in the echo chamber and nobody with the positive attitude towards the M11 is allowed to enter? I believe that it needs some contrasting posts here 🤭

And that comment epitomises the thread.  It’s not a case of truth.  It’s opinion.  A person’s reasons for not buying a camera don’t need contrasting …

[charlesphoto99]

Well I just set up my new MacBook Pro Max with 64GB of RAM, 32 core GPU and 1TB SSD. Now this is an upgrade! Absolutely smokes the M1 16GB RAM Mini I was using before (which replaced a 2013 6-Core Mac Pro w/64GB RAM). The Mini was nothing but beach balls and memory swap when using Lightroom. With a dozen of my most used programs open the memory pressure is still almost nil now. Using it as a desktop machine with external NEC monitor. It is big and heavy for a portable laptop. 

So before investing in an M11 and moving those 60MB files around, one of these might be a much better call. 

[shirubadanieru]

The never ending annoying thread lol what about going to take pictures (with whatever camera you have) and share them in the pictures thread so that people who come to this forum actually get useful information from us all here? 

Can we stop arguing the pros and cons and just say:

• M11 is another good Leica M camera. All M cameras since the M3 are good cameras and the updates are always minor, because they kinda nailed it in the first place back in 1954.
• If you are happy with your current camera, be it an M3, M6, M9 or M10 just keep it and skip the M11; like I said, go take pictures, and share them here. Or share tips and tricks, or anything else that’s useful for when people are searching for information about Leica.
• If you read the reviews and want to try the M11, go ahead and try it. That’s what I did, and I drew my own conclusions which I shared but I’ll repeat here once again so that people who actually want to get information from M11 users can get them without having to search 24 pages:
• - The M11 is the best M camera in terms of technological advancements, but these are not world-changing advancements, it’s more nice-to-have such as USB-C, triple resolution sensor, a bigger battery, and an extra option to meter. Beyond that, at least to me, it’s literally the same as an M10.
• - ISO is ok, if you care about ISO performance, just get an M10M (which is unbeaten) or stick with the M10R since they’re pretty similar.
• - Battery life is good, not groundbreaking (I never had issues with previous Leica batteries, but after reading the reviews I thought that I could use the M11 without even caring about the battery; that’s not the case, it’s just a bit better of what I was getting in the M9 and M10, etc..because my way of shooting in all those cameras was always LV off / screen off, etc etc…the biggest advantage for the M11 is that if you do use LV on, and so forth you will def notice a big improvement, but if you don’t and shoot like me..it’s just a minor improvement. 
• - Overall the M11 It’s a minor upgrade from the M10 platform. For example, the M9 —> M240 was a big shift (CCD to CMOs, design change, etc); this is definitely not to that extent but it’s still a nice camera that builds on top of the M10 platform and makes it better / more polished.
• - there are bugs, like more bugs than any other M camera I’ve had so far and I’ve had them all, which is annoying..but hopefully these will be fixed in the coming weeks. I’m sure Leica will release another software update soon to address the issues people have been raising.
• - All other nitpicking that’s been going on here literally does not matter, things like oh the black shade is x% brighter than black chrome and feels a bit rougher…or oh the shutter sound is different from the M10R…or whatever, it literally does not impact your shooting whatsoever and you forget about any of these changes after a day or so with the camera.

To summarize, and hopefully end this thread (probably won’t), if you want the M11, get it. And if got the M11, respect the opinion of those who feel they don’t need the M11 or that the upgrade does not justify the cost Leica is asking. I also encourage you to ignore these threads (myself included) or  trying to defend the M11 with all your energy, and instead go to the threads that are providing meaningful information to potential buyers, such as pictures, testing of features, tips & tricks, and so forth. 

If you don’t want the M11, then don’t get it. And if you don’t buy it, then just keep that to yourself and respect those who decided to get it instead of online shaming. It’s their money and their choice, so keep it to yourself and go to the forum category of your camera, to post your experience there with your camera, so that people who are looking for an M9, M10, or a film Leica can learn from your experience and see the pictures those cameras produce. 

 

That’s it, good night or good day wherever you ware in the planet. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[M Journey]

10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

This whole thread is baffling.  It’s title (why I won’t be getting an M11) is informative, I guess.  But it is full of posts from people saying why everyone should get one, or why people’s reasons are wrong.  Strange.

I realise that when people make uninformed posts about my cameras (particularly the M Edition 60 when I had one, and the M10-D), I also correct the misapprehension.  I rationalise this to himself by saying that I’m correcting misinformation.  But am I really just defending my purchase?

I completely agree.  This thread really should belong in the m10 subforum.  At best it's a coping mechanism for people who decided, for whatever reason, they don't want an m11.  At worst it's antagonistic to people who bought an m11 or want to and are looking for more information.

To me it's very much like people protesting against beef at a place that sells beef.  It's pretentious and self-serving.  It's almost as if people enjoying their m11s are somehow making non m11 owners enjoy their m cameras less...

Whatever m camera you own, either you bought it new for a lot of money (much like the m11 costs a lot of money) or you bought your camera used for a great deal.  In 5 years when you can get the m11 for a great deal will it finally be a better camera then?  

It's one thing to have an m11 in hand, use it, and in an honest review, say why it's not for you or why it might not be worth the cost to upgrade.  But to say why the m11 is not worth buying without any hands-on experience?  Thats like all those YouTube videos with people reviewing items based on specs they read on website.  There's a reason why those types of videos only have a handful of views and the videos with real hands-on usage have tens/hundreds of thousands of views.  The former is rubbish and the latter is infinitely more valid and useful.

The percentage of people who have an m11 and are enjoying it is very high (>95% from the posts on this forum as far as I can tell).  The percentage of people who don't have an m11 but want one vs the percentage of people who don't have an m11 and don't want one is probably 50/50 with a steady stream of people defecting from the side that don't want one.

A lot of people in this thread should take their "Get off my lawn" attitude and go back to their lawn (m10 or older forum).  Don't come to our lawn and tell us to get off...its not a good look.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by M Journey

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[M11 for me]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

And that comment epitomises the thread.  It’s not a case of truth.  It’s opinion.  A person’s reasons for not buying a camera don’t need contrasting …

Hi John @IkarusJohn I am sorry and by no means I had any intention to come too near to anybody. Its each individual's decision what to buy and what not to buy. 

[tom0511]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb IkarusJohn:

But I already have spot, multi-field/matrix and centre-weighted metering with my M10-D …

Yes, if you use live view you are correct.

Edited February 5, 2022 by tom0511