sebben Posted January 15, 2022 Share #21 Posted January 15, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Tailwagger said: 75mm 'lux M10-R Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M11: A better way to test this would be to do exposure ramps -/+ at a fixed ISO, white-balance and aperture and push and pull the files back to baseline exposure to see how the sensors respond to under and over exposure. This will tell you a lot more about how the sensors are different. Perhaps one is better in the shadows or highlights, or maybe the BSI sensor is better in all cases. The cameras clearly render colours differently but this could also be related to slight WB differences. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 Hi sebben, Take a look here Comparisons of M11 and M10R. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Tailwagger Posted January 15, 2022 Share #22 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, sebben said: A better way to test this would be to do exposure ramps -/+ at a fixed ISO, white-balance and aperture and push and pull the files back to baseline exposure to see how the sensors respond to under and over exposure. This will tell you a lot more about how the sensors are different. Perhaps one is better in the shadows or highlights, or maybe the BSI sensor is better in all cases. The cameras clearly render colours differently but this could also be related to slight WB differences. Can't disagree, but I'm not sure I have the patience for that at the moment. As I promised was a vignette test with 'luxes wide open, that's what I shot. Next thing I'm interested in seeing is if there is an appreciable difference in corner sharpness with the wides. If there's interest I'll pub those results and leave the DR stuff to others. What I will say in that regard is that the M11 files strike me as have a more latitude in the shadows. Colors emerge more cleanly from them. Here's a snap of the cat. First, SooC (60Mpx DNG) into LR, cropped for effect. Taken with the 75mm 'lux, shot again wide open and notably hand held a 1/60", ISO 100. Close examination of the whiskers at 100% show no discernable motion blur. At this distance, around a meter, the DoF is, of course razor thin with the focus point on the hair over the right eye. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Here is the same shot but processed not to taste, but rather to see how well pushing the shadows worked. Highlights: -42 Shadows: +100 Whites: +48 Blacks: +26 All else no changes. Anecdotal, but personally, I'm quite impressed with how the well the colors emerge out of the shadows. I'm guessing there's at least as much latitude, if not more than with the 10-R. Edited January 15, 2022 by Tailwagger 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Here is the same shot but processed not to taste, but rather to see how well pushing the shadows worked. Highlights: -42 Shadows: +100 Whites: +48 Blacks: +26 All else no changes. Anecdotal, but personally, I'm quite impressed with how the well the colors emerge out of the shadows. I'm guessing there's at least as much latitude, if not more than with the 10-R. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328436-comparisons-of-m11-and-m10r/?do=findComment&comment=4357066'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 15, 2022 Share #23 Posted January 15, 2022 3 hours ago, M10 for me said: Ss you dan read out of my lines I am still looking fir arguments for the M11. Not needed once we read your forum name. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 15, 2022 Share #24 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Sorry if I don't post images because I only did handheld unscientific non perfect comparisons between the 2 cameras. I have a beta test M11 and own a M10r. I have been interested in this since I am deciding to upgrade or not (probably I will). Here is my take. I mainly tested with the 28/1.4 and 50APO since these are the two lenses I use most often. 1) when you choose sunny WB and import to Lightroom - M10r color is somewhat warmer and a little more "brownish". The M11 color seems more neutral. In some cases I really like the M10r color, looks somewhat "organic", but I think the M11 color is more balanced/neutral. I have not yet made up my mind which color I prefer, but I tend to the M11 for overall use. 2) vignetting: Shooting at wider f-stops the M10r does indeed show a little more vignetting than the M11; For me I find the 28/1.4 with the M10r vignettes quite heavy, it is better with the M11. This is a real plus for the M11 for me. I am not sure about this any more - I need to take more shots in different light, right now I feel at least in cloudy light they are about the same (I checked with the 28/1.4 and 50 APO, beta FW) 3) noise...I couldn't detect much difference 4) highlights... both are quite good, maybe the M10r has the slight edge Edited January 16, 2022 by tom0511 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 15, 2022 Share #25 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jeff S said: Not needed once we read your forum name. Jeff The name "M11 for me" is still up for grabs :). Edited January 15, 2022 by SrMi 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 15, 2022 Share #26 Posted January 15, 2022 1 minute ago, SrMi said: The name "M11 for me" is still up to grabs :). Exactly, but that requires a strong commitment. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted January 16, 2022 Share #27 Posted January 16, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, Jeff S said: Exactly, but that requires a strong commitment. Jeff Not as strong as if you tattoed it 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 16, 2022 Share #28 Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Artin said: After spending some good time with the M11 and comparing the images with very similar images taken with my M10R with the same lenses. I can say that the M11 is higher resolution, great dynamic range , gentler on older glass, much much better metering. As for the IQ. Alone the M10R is excellent and not far behind the M11. I do find the M10R more punchy and saturated. Also the M10R is more forgiving with motion blur by about 1stop. With the M10R you can shoot at focal length speed. With M11 bump it up by one stop best with 2bl focal length. As for AWB. I am still trying to figure it out it has been hit and miss with the M11 so far but still early. I have no issue shooting at (1/2f) sec with M11, and if I calm myself properly, with (1/f) sec. It is the same shutter speed strategy that I use with M10-R and M10M. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsm21 Posted January 16, 2022 Share #29 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 8:28 PM, scroy said: While waiting for some more comparisons - here's a side by side - I just found... Those YouTube comparison videos scream fake to me, looking at other videos on that channel it seems like they quickly release auto generated videos in order to gain views and capitalize on latest camera releases 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 16, 2022 Share #30 Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, jakontil said: Not as strong as if you tattoed it Depends where 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 16, 2022 Share #31 Posted January 16, 2022 5 hours ago, Jeff S said: Exactly, but that requires a strong commitment. Jeff We have several candidates who are ready to commit to "M11 not for me" user name :). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 16, 2022 Share #32 Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, SrMi said: I have no issue shooting at (1/2f) sec with M11, and if I calm myself properly, with (1/f) sec. It is the same shutter speed strategy that I use with M10-R and M10M. Exactly what I'm seeing. With proper technique, 1/f is useable, particularly with all the pixels on offer. 1/2f if you hate entertaining any softness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 16, 2022 Share #33 Posted January 16, 2022 I would like to add 1. its early so I assume profiles formlightroom and c1 for M11 will further improve. But lr works good already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostTenebras Posted January 22, 2022 Share #34 Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) I did some test shots trying to compare the M10-R with the M11. The M11 has a clear advantage in the resolution department. Its files are more detailed (see 100% crops below, probably also due to the APO's higher performance). All in all, the image quality is therefore incrementally better with the M11 but one has to take a closer look to notice differences. The main difference I can report relates to the AWB. It is much cooler (more magenta) on the M11. Here is an example: M11 + 50 APO (DNG with Adobe Color profile, no edits) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R + 50 FLE (DNG with Adobe Color profile, no edits) Edited January 22, 2022 by PostTenebras Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R + 50 FLE (DNG with Adobe Color profile, no edits) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328436-comparisons-of-m11-and-m10r/?do=findComment&comment=4364572'>More sharing options...
PostTenebras Posted January 22, 2022 Share #35 Posted January 22, 2022 And here 100% crops M11 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328436-comparisons-of-m11-and-m10r/?do=findComment&comment=4364577'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted January 23, 2022 Share #36 Posted January 23, 2022 I thought that’s what the temperature slider is for. I wouldn’t call magenta warmer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #37 Posted January 23, 2022 21 hours ago, PostTenebras said: I did some test shots trying to compare the M10-R with the M11. The M11 has a clear advantage in the resolution department. Its files are more detailed (see 100% crops below, probably also due to the APO's higher performance). All in all, the image quality is therefore incrementally better with the M11 but one has to take a closer look to notice differences. The main difference I can report relates to the AWB. It is much cooler (more magenta) on the M11. Here is an example: M11 + 50 APO (DNG with Adobe Color profile, no edits) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R + 50 FLE (DNG with Adobe Color profile, no edits) Thanks for doing these. Two things I'm interested in. One, the color differences between the two with the same white balance. People were gushing over the M11's reds in the Leica Tech talk. If there is any way you could compare reds that'd be terrific. Second, how is the LCD with focus peaking? The M10R has a not-so-great LCD and I find it hard using it for focus peaking. Given that I like using lenses that are longer than 50mm, I'd like to know how well focus peaking works off the LCD with the M11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PostTenebras Posted January 23, 2022 Share #38 Posted January 23, 2022 4 hours ago, John Smith said: Thanks for doing these. Two things I'm interested in. One, the color differences between the two with the same white balance. People were gushing over the M11's reds in the Leica Tech talk. If there is any way you could compare reds that'd be terrific. Second, how is the LCD with focus peaking? The M10R has a not-so-great LCD and I find it hard using it for focus peaking. Given that I like using lenses that are longer than 50mm, I'd like to know how well focus peaking works off the LCD with the M11. Here is another picture shot with the same combination (M11 + APO 50 and M10-R with 50 FLE), whereby the WB was set to "sunny" (5500 K, +10) on both DNGs. This time, the M11 somehow does seem to have a greener cast. M11 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R The M11's LCD has more resolution. I have not yet used Live View to focus. I will do some tests with a 90 mm and revert with my initial impressions. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M10-R The M11's LCD has more resolution. I have not yet used Live View to focus. I will do some tests with a 90 mm and revert with my initial impressions. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/328436-comparisons-of-m11-and-m10r/?do=findComment&comment=4365721'>More sharing options...
JFCstudio Posted February 16, 2022 Share #39 Posted February 16, 2022 The 11 makes me smile. Because I am going to save a lot of money. But who knows, may be with a few firmware they will be able at leica to get the color right, By right I mean, not cheap and vulgar. The R is far from being done. Same for the 10. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted February 16, 2022 Share #40 Posted February 16, 2022 The M11 has the best color of any Leica camera for me, that was the biggest surprise. It’s the first leica camera that i feel happy with the colors without the need to do any major adjustments on Lightroom or add filters. My workflow: Shoot with manual white balance set to daytime (I shoot film, so I prefer to shoot my digital cameras in the same/similar settings to film) Import to Lightroom —> Set it to adobe standard profile —> retouch highlights / shadows —> export as jpg 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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