M11 Monochrom is coming ?

[colint544]

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41 minutes ago, insideline said:

The file is too big due to the number of pages so I am trying to reduce to download. Everything mentioned above is correct except for the finish being "black scratch resistant" and the dark chroming of the front of the viewfinder surround vs the bright chrome surround of the M10M. There were a number of sample pictures to show how usable a file is taken at ISO 200,000 plus another picture taken 6 stops under which looked virtually black yet upon recovery the image looked flawless with amazing detail. I am a huge M10M fan but this M11M could be quite the camera especially in difficult very low light conditions, plus just how much more detail, resolution and clarity will there be with the BSI 60MP sensor w/o the Bayer filter as compared to the very capable M10M. Mine is already paid for so hopefully we will all find out in the next week or so. 

Interesting. Thank you

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[Jon Warwick]

14 hours ago, insideline said:

I am a huge M10M fan but this M11M could be quite the camera especially in difficult very low light conditions, plus just how much more detail, resolution and clarity will there be with the BSI 60MP sensor w/o the Bayer filter as compared to the very capable M10M. 

yes, re the resolution aspect will be interesting, a 40mp vs 60bps isn't that much when you think about difference in native print size at 300dpi, but then again i said that about the M246 vs M10 Monochrom(!), finding the latter to be a necessary jump for the 45" prints that I see as the size limit for my subjects at that 40mp count. I think some subjects (street, portraits) are perfectly well suited to lower resolution cameras, but my favoured type of subject includes nature / landscapes, and for the latter I'd take any extra native resolution that i can get .....trees in the far distance simply look "wrong" to me if the file is overly resampled, to my eyes it's pretty clear when branches and leaves aren't accurately resolved because that type of very fine detail no longer looks realistic and takes on a digitised and erratic rendering.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[James1975]

5 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

yes, re the resolution aspect will be interesting, a 40mp vs 60bps isn't that much when you think about difference in native print size at 300dpi, but then again i said that about the M246 vs M10 Monochrom(!), finding the latter to be a necessary jump for the 45" prints that I see as the size limit for my subjects at that 40mp count. I think some subjects (street, portraits) are perfectly well suited to lower resolution cameras, but my favoured type of subject includes nature / landscapes, and for the latter I'd take any extra native resolution that i can get .....trees in the far distance simply look "wrong" to me if the file is overly resampled, to my eyes it's pretty clear when branches and leaves aren't accurately resolved because that type of very fine detail no longer looks realistic and takes on a digitised and erratic rendering.

My feeling is that having the option of 33mp or 60mp is going to clinch it for me over the M10M. Leaving aside the USB charging, better battery life, lower weight etc, it is, in effect, two cameras (street and landscape) in one with three different resolutions available at the click of a button. Add to that a (big) improvement in ISO range, the built-in storage and the resolving power and I think the price increase and upgrade seem justified.

[chasdfg]

It'll probably be the best Leica M on paper with plenty of smaller, useful changes over the M10M like the M11 did over the M10/p, but from the resolution and high ISO perspective, the M9M and M246 were clearly bigger leaps over their colour counterparts (both of which excelled as both a black and white machine and as an option for higher iso performance and resolution, in the days where Leica Ms were 24mp and under and struggling to produce clean ISO3200 files). 

I found myself shooting ISO12500 and under with my M10M after the novelty of shooting ISO50k or 100k wore off. Shooting usable files at those ISOs is certainly impressive, but not something I'd do on a regular basis. My M11 does ok at ISO12500 too. We're in diminishing marginal utility territory here regarding the high ISO and resolution advantage. 

Nevertheless, now with 5 black and white only cameras to choose from (including the Q2M), users have a lot of options to get into the concept of having a black and white only workflow using such dedicated cameras. That's still the bottom line appeal of the monochroms, and that will always be charming. 

Haven't looked forward to a Leica release this much since the M11 came out last year. Granted it has only been a year and a bit but it feels like a while. Nice to have this eager-anticipation feeling to shake up the mundanity of day-to-day life.

Edited April 10, 2023 by chasdfg

[Nimar]

1 hour ago, chasdfg said:

Haven't looked forward to a Leica release this much since the M11 came out last year. Granted it has only been a year and a bit but it feels like a while. Nice to have this eager-anticipation feeling to shake up the mundanity of day-to-day life.

That’s pretty depressing. 

[Photojournoguy]

I’d be curious how the shutter performs if it’s like the M11…I’m sticking with my 10M regardless but if the shutter isn’t as usable in practice it won’t even be a thought for me.

[chasdfg]

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2 hours ago, Nimar said:

That’s pretty depressing. 

Well I meant camera-wise. Or maybe it really is that depressing

[pgh]

8 minutes ago, chasdfg said:

Well I meant camera-wise. Or maybe it really is that depressing

Going out to shoot photos with whatever you’ve got (and anyone here’s really got plenty, whatever it is) is the best way through that imo. 

[johnbuckley]

I’ve had each iteration of the Monochrom, and I eagerly await the M11M. I have been dreaming of this version. The M10M has been my most valuable companion since its arrival just before the pandemic. But having greater latitude for fine art landscape photography, for night photography in cities, and for far larger prints will be worth the expense, IMHO, after trading in my M10M. For me, the Monochrom release is the high point of each new M cycle.

I wrote this in early 2020 about the three extant Monochroms, and I think it holds up.

https://tulipfrenzy.com/2020/01/26/on-leicas-m10-monochrom-and-the-apogee-of-digital-black-and-white-photography/

And then used the M10M for my book project entitled “Pictures of U.” (http://www.tulipfrenzyphotography.com/14th-and-you)

Who knows what adventures await with the M11Monochrom; I remain grateful for Leica’s commitment to the M and Q Monochrom variants.

 

[pgh]

44 minutes ago, johnbuckley said:

I’ve had each iteration of the Monochrom, and I eagerly await the M11M. I have been dreaming of this version. The M10M has been my most valuable companion since its arrival just before the pandemic. But having greater latitude for fine art landscape photography, for night photography in cities, and for far larger prints will be worth the expense, IMHO, after trading in my M10M. For me, the Monochrom release is the high point of each new M cycle.

I wrote this in early 2020 about the three extant Monochroms, and I think it holds up.

https://tulipfrenzy.com/2020/01/26/on-leicas-m10-monochrom-and-the-apogee-of-digital-black-and-white-photography/

And then used the M10M for my book project entitled “Pictures of U.” (http://www.tulipfrenzyphotography.com/14th-and-you)

Who knows what adventures await with the M11Monochrom; I remain grateful for Leica’s commitment to the M and Q Monochrom variants.

 

Can you elaborate what you mean by far larger prints? What do you sense this is in real terms? I ask because I've compared 40 and 60 mp prints at similar sizes in color. The M10M is more like a 60 mp file in color - where do you expect the M11M to get you? The real world difference from what I've seen - from 40 to 60 mp color sensors - is pretty...nomimal. Marginal. Indistinguishable for anyone but the pixelest of peepers of prints (which we all know defeats the purpose of viewing a large print). When a well executed M10M file rivals large format film where are you hoping to take it? You can print an M10M file that looks great 40x60. Sure, and M11M file might look a little better, but how big are you going? 

[hdmesa]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:53 AM, colint544 said:

When I say 'claimed to be black chrome finish', I'm getting that from the Leica Rumors site. Can you link us to the Leica internal release on the M11 Monochrom? Sounds like there's more detailed info there, cheers

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I wouldn't use Leica Rumors as your source for the paint finish. Black chrome is dead.

[algrove]

On 4/9/2023 at 6:38 AM, James1975 said:

Ahh the M11M. I don't need it, the price is eye-watering, my M11 is perfectly capable of producing excellent B&W images in Lightroom and there are no reviews available to make an informed decision.

But I'm still going to buy it. Send help. Please.

Wait a minute you bought an M11 for US$9k and the M11M is eye-watering for US$200 more. If you own Leica gear and all prices are eye-watering, I'd use eye drops from B&L.

[johnbuckley]

57 minutes ago, pgh said:

Can you elaborate what you mean by far larger prints? What do you sense this is in real terms? I ask because I've compared 40 and 60 mp prints at similar sizes in color. The M10M is more like a 60 mp file in color - where do you expect the M11M to get you? The real world difference from what I've seen - from 40 to 60 mp color sensors - is pretty...nomimal. Marginal. Indistinguishable for anyone but the pixelest of peepers of prints (which we all know defeats the purpose of viewing a large print). When a well executed M10M file rivals large format film where are you hoping to take it? You can print an M10M file that looks great 40x60. Sure, and M11M file might look a little better, but how big are you going? 

My wife and I just moved into a new home. We have some large walls, and a stairwell that is crying out for art. We can’t afford another artist’s huge paintings or prints, so I guess we are stuck with me. I don’t have any idea how much less constrained I’ll feel with the M11M in terms of printing, and compared to the M10M. I will, unquestionably, have some greater ability to go large, and as I have learned, every inch helps.

A few years ago, I lost a sale on a picture made with the M-240-M. It just couldn’t go large enough. Each expansion of the M Monochrom’s file size and density offers new possibilities, even if you’re right — and I assume you are - that it’s only marginal. 

[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, pgh said:

Can you elaborate what you mean by far larger prints? What do you sense this is in real terms? I ask because I've compared 40 and 60 mp prints at similar sizes in color. The M10M is more like a 60 mp file in color - where do you expect the M11M to get you? The real world difference from what I've seen - from 40 to 60 mp color sensors - is pretty...nomimal. Marginal. Indistinguishable for anyone but the pixelest of peepers of prints (which we all know defeats the purpose of viewing a large print). When a well executed M10M file rivals large format film where are you hoping to take it? You can print an M10M file that looks great 40x60. Sure, and M11M file might look a little better, but how big are you going? 

I have a reality check on my wall . . it's a 40*60 print of an image I took in China with Henri (the 18mp M9M). You can stand right in front of it and look at the leaves from a foot away, and they're pretty much perfect. but it doesn't mean more isn't better!

[Jon Warwick]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

I have a reality check on my wall . . it's a 40*60 print of an image I took in China with Henri (the 18mp M9M). You can stand right in front of it and look at the leaves from a foot away, and they're pretty much perfect. but it doesn't mean more isn't better!

I recall it was those files of yours from China (and Aue Sobol's "Arrivals & Departures' project) that originally got me excited by the Monochrom, admittedly it took me until the M10M to justify the further expense of a dedicated B&W camera alongside my mainstream color ones, but more than delighted that I eventually got there. There are benefits that I readily notice from the 40mp Monochrom in terms of rendering, even against cameras like my 100mp GFX.  

I will keenly look at a Monochrom if it's 60mp resolution. Some subjects can be pleasing at 40x60" on just 18mp as you note, but i can imagine this type of scene with very fine detail (taken on an M7 and Adox 20) would benefit from a jump from 40 to 60mp if printed really large .....here i think more megapixels if an M11M offers them would actually be better for this type of subject!

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Edited April 10, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[pgh]

I really can't recall a compelling photograph - an image that was already successful on the terms of its content / execution that I've come across where I thought "Oh, this is an almost...if only it had a little bit more sharpness"

I understand this stuff sort of - there is a sweet spot. I wasn't happy with digital until about ~2015 or so when the quality of the 30-40 mp sensors of the time essentially matched the detail of medium format prints - but when I saw the show of Lieko Shiga's Rasen Kaigen and there were 50+" prints from 35mm negative scans they were incredible. Not that you couldn't see grain, but it was part of the charm. A picture at some point will always fail to be a facsimile of reality and chasing that endlessly, for me, sort of misses the point of where photography succeeds as a medium (which is getting to be a narrower and narrower place imo). 

Especially with the monochrom series - where grains/noise looks so good if crazy enlargement is needed, the pursuit of reproducing reality through an image...just feels a little antithetical to me. But I've spent almost a decade convinced 30-40 mp is a general sweet spot for still photography where it works best (which is imo in books and in approachable sized prints in galleries - at a certain level you're starting to look like wallpaper even if the detail is incredible), so you can call me stodgy. I remain open to changing my mind upon seeing an example that blows me away, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[insideline]

I have the M11M on order and am quite excited about its potential capabilities but not just for any potential uptick in clarity, detail and resolution as it is the potential to capture images in challenging lighting conditions that even the M10M would struggle that intrigues me. Contained within Leica's dealer announcement for the M11M was a photograph of an arrangement of flowers with a misting of water droplets shot at minus 6 stops which relegated the image to be virtually black, yet when processed to bring out the shadows the file possessed incredible detail, dynamic range and clarity. There were a number of sample photographs provided to showcase the M11M's capabilities with another one of the front of a building shot at 200,000 ISO and 1/16,000 sec and to my eyes the file was more than presentable. 

To date my M10M can not match the detail, clarity, dynamic range etc of my mini medium format Hasselblad X2D, and I am not looking for the M11M to do that either, but if it can provide the level of flexibility to capture what would normally be extremely difficult photographs to capture due to challenging lighting and environmental constraints then I will be extremely happy. 

[Crevice]

51 minutes ago, insideline said:

I have the M11M on order and am quite excited about its potential capabilities but not just for any potential uptick in clarity, detail and resolution as it is the potential to capture images in challenging lighting conditions that even the M10M would struggle that intrigues me. Contained within Leica's dealer announcement for the M11M was a photograph of an arrangement of flowers with a misting of water droplets shot at minus 6 stops which relegated the image to be virtually black, yet when processed to bring out the shadows the file possessed incredible detail, dynamic range and clarity. There were a number of sample photographs provided to showcase the M11M's capabilities with another one of the front of a building shot at 200,000 ISO and 1/16,000 sec and to my eyes the file was more than presentable. 

To date my M10M can not match the detail, clarity, dynamic range etc of my mini medium format Hasselblad X2D, and I am not looking for the M11M to do that either, but if it can provide the level of flexibility to capture what would normally be extremely difficult photographs to capture due to challenging lighting and environmental constraints then I will be extremely happy. 

You mention having one on order, do you know when the actual release date is? I know announcement is this week, But I am not sure how soon after the announcement Leica will actually have the camera for sale. 

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[Maxmd]

3 hours ago, insideline said:

I have the M11M on order

How did you order one without an official release? 

[rtai]

6 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I have a reality check on my wall . . it's a 40*60 print of an image I took in China with Henri (the 18mp M9M). You can stand right in front of it and look at the leaves from a foot away, and they're pretty much perfect. but it doesn't mean more isn't better!

Can you please post the shot? It must be great to make it on your wall.