New Lens: Voigtlander APO-SKOPAR 90mm f/2.8 VM

[cp995]

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb Danner:

... The only question remaining is; black or silver

Which camera?

[Danner]

4 hours ago, cp995 said:

Which camera?

I have both a black and a silver M6.  All my other lenses are back, except my 1953 Summitar.

[cp995]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Danner:

I have both a black and a silver M6.  All my other lenses are back, except my 1953 Summitar.

O.k., the silver from Voigtländer is it bit lighter than the Leica color, so I'll take the black one for the silver body.

For a black body the silver is great!
 

[cp995]

Finally I took the black one ...

M10 - f2.8 - Focus on the barrel (klick on the picture for better quality)

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Edited February 13, 2022 by cp995

[helged]

I have a post in the SL-forum (see below), but would like to check among M-users as well: 

I am searching for a (particularly) flare resistent 90-ish mm lens on a SLx-body. The lens will be used for long-distance landscape, with the lens focus set to near infinity. Sharpness is required across the image, with the lens aperture a little closed (say f5.6 to 8). Only manual focus will be used. I have owned/own 90 Elmarit-M (latest version), 90 Cron-M (latest version), 90 Macro-Elmarit-M, but all of these are somewhat prone to flare. The Voigtländer APO-SKOPAR 90mm f/2.8 VM looks promising. As stated in the comments below, SL90 is a prime candidate; but this lens is somewhat a over-kill for my project as I plan to leave the camera out, on timer, for a year or more...

To recap: 90-ish mm lens; not prone to flare; sharpness across the frame stopped a little down; manual focus is absolutely fine; a clear plus if cost is 'reasonable'; to be used on SLx.

Thanks!

 

[lct]

You may wish to try the inexpensive Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE.

[rscheffler]

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Zeiss ZM 85/4.

Over at Fred Miranda a member shot some comparisons between the ZM and the new Voigtlander. The ZM is sharper across the frame, the Voigtlander has some mid frame weakness in comparison.

I own or have owned the following Leica-M 90s: APO Summicron, Macro-Elmarit and Summarit v1. All are sharp, with the APO being the best of the three, but I would not consider any of them to be exceptionally flare resistant. IMO they’re average at best in this regard and fairly susceptible to veiling flare.

[rscheffler]

Fred Miranda did a review of the APO-Skopar.

[helged]

1 hour ago, rscheffler said:

Zeiss ZM 85/4.

Over at Fred Miranda a member shot some comparisons between the ZM and the new Voigtlander. The ZM is sharper across the frame, the Voigtlander has some mid frame weakness in comparison.

I own or have owned the following Leica-M 90s: APO Summicron, Macro-Elmarit and Summarit v1. All are sharp, with the APO being the best of the three, but I would not consider any of them to be exceptionally flare resistant. IMO they’re average at best in this regard and fairly susceptible to veiling flare.

I got hand on a used Zeiss 85mm f4; will test it as soon as it arrives. 

[lct]

6 hours ago, rscheffler said:

Fred Miranda did a review of the APO-Skopar.

Not sure if Fred Moranda tested flare when the sun or other bright light sources are outside the frame. It is the main weakness, to various extents, of Leica lenses in my experience. Would be interesting to see if the CV 90/2.8 does better in this regard.

[luigi bertolotti]

I'd be curios to see comparision of this interesting lens with the last 2,8 from Leica : the Elmarit M, which I have and consider my best 90... but bulky and heavy (btw, I have the silver) ; it's sharp as one can pretend and with beautiful color rendering : my modern 90s are it and the Macro Elmar, and I tend to take this one more often for its compactness... but 2,8 is the RIGHT aperture for a 90 imho (I've always found problematic to achieve focus with the Summicron WO). Built in hood of the Elmarit is a plus... but CV solution of reversible hood is smart.

I confess that for "sentiment" I prefer to use Leica lenses... and my only CV is the (excellent) 15 V3... but am definitely tempted by this 90... has anyone seen, somewhere, a direct comparision of it with the Elmarit M ?

 

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I'd be curios to see comparision of this interesting lens with the last 2,8 from Leica : the Elmarit M, which I have and consider my best 90...

I just got one this week! It's a very good lens. I won't use the 90 focal length often, that's why I'm not worried of the 410gr.

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

has anyone seen, somewhere, a direct comparision of it with the Elmarit M ?

It was between a mint Elmarit-M or a brand new CV APO. I chose with my heart. Time will tell.

[adan]

3 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

.....but am definitely tempted by this 90... has anyone seen, somewhere, a direct comparision of it with the Elmarit M ?

Not yet, but one can "interpolate" from the Fred Miranda tests against the APO-Summicron, using Leica's MTF charts for the Elmarit-M and the APO-Summicron.

Fred reports the C/V has a slight sag in resolution in the "mid-field" but keeps up with the APO-Summicron in other places. And so does the Elmarit-M (10-15mm out from the center).

http://www.summilux.net/m_system/images/Elmarit90.pdf

http://www.summilux.net/m_system/images/ApoSummicron90Asph.pdf

Of course, MTF doesn't tell the whole story, by a long shot. There is global (rather than micro) contrast; there is color rendering; and there is flare propensity (especially with the cramped shutter chamber of the M10-series - which Leica may have addressed with the M11, by removing the old off-the-shutter-curtain meter and its housing).

The 90mm lenses from both Leica and C/V since the 1990s have really been pretty similar in performance and look, especially those around f/2.8 (Summarits, Elmarit-M, original LTM 90mm APO-Lanthar f/3.5 from 2 decades ago.

As demonstrated by my little quizlet, and Dennis's examples, on the ""Lightweight 90" thread. One has to be especially picky about small details to see much difference. And other sample images, on this thread and elsewhere. Which look pretty "Elmarit-ish" to me.

I'd go so far as to guess Cosina deliberately targeted the Elmarit-M in their design brief (even though the cosmetics tip their hat to the original 1960s Tele-Elmarit "fat"). Just as they targeted the compact 35 Summilux pre-ASPH with the 35mm Nokton f/1.4, and aimed to split the difference between the 75 Summilux and 75 APO-Summicron with the 75 Nokton f/1.5 (lighter than either).

A 90mm f/2.8-ish is a gap crying out to be filled on a rangefinder (size, weight, and focus-ability) - now that Leica has abandoned all their own f/2.8-ish 90s.

But like you, I would like to see a head-to-head comparison at some point, just for confirmation.

[graphlex]

I went with the Elmarit-M (11807) after trying out the new VM 90 2.8. Strictly a matter of individual preference, but I found the VM insufficiently contrasty and I didn’t warm to its color rendition. The 11807 is a little more contrasty than I’d like but…

[105012]

No problem with contrast or colours for the new APO-SKOPAR in my experience. (Although the compression to post here makes it more difficult to evaluate, the full size image looks really good, in my view).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

M3, APO-SKOPAR 90mm/2.8, Ektar.

[rscheffler]

22 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I'd be curios to see comparision of this interesting lens with the last 2,8 from Leica : the Elmarit M, which I have and consider my best 90... but bulky and heavy (btw, I have the silver) ; it's sharp as one can pretend and with beautiful color rendering : my modern 90s are it and the Macro Elmar, and I tend to take this one more often for its compactness... but 2,8 is the RIGHT aperture for a 90 imho (I've always found problematic to achieve focus with the Summicron WO). Built in hood of the Elmarit is a plus... but CV solution of reversible hood is smart.

I confess that for "sentiment" I prefer to use Leica lenses... and my only CV is the (excellent) 15 V3... but am definitely tempted by this 90... has anyone seen, somewhere, a direct comparision of it with the Elmarit M ?

 

While not comprehensive, there is some info over at FM in a comparison done by a member, starting here. There is some commentary by that member about flare; the VMis more resistant. The Elmarit shows some veiling in certain situations.

Also, FM member Juha Kannisto posted links to his walk around photos with the VM on the Sony a7C:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1723230/12#15782684

IIRC some of his images were backlit and show how the VM handles such conditions.

[helged]

9 minutes ago, rscheffler said:

While not comprehensive, there is some info over at FM in a comparison done by a member, starting here. There is some commentary by that member about flare; the VMis more resistant. The Elmarit shows some veiling in certain situations.

Also, FM member Juha Kannisto posted links to his walk around photos with the VM on the Sony a7C:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1723230/12#15782684

IIRC some of his images were backlit and show how the VM handles such conditions.

Most useful; thanks a lot!

[lct]

Interesting indeed thank you. If pmeheut is our @pascal_meheut he was the discoverer of the M8's issues with IR if memory serves me well.

[kivis]

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[kivis]

I just received the chrome version to go with my black M-P 240 and my black M-A. Why Chrome? because all my other 4 lenses are black, so I figured chrome would be easier to pick out of the camera bag. Besides it looks great on its own. Question? This is my first APO lens, is it a good idea to pop a UV filter on the lens? I have them on all my other lenes. Mostly for protection. The 90mm has fairly deep lens hood so maybe it would not be needed. Anyway looking forward to taking it out in the field.