My message to Leica AG in regards to CL!

[nicci78]

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Maybe maybe not : 
Same Maestro II SOC. 
Same 24MP APS-C sensor. 
 

I guess that Leica never wanted to bother bringing TL2 on par. 
Because CDAF only rely on algorithms, SOC processing power and sensor read-out speed. 
The later two should be identical. And rewriting the algorithm for TL2 specific OS shouldn’t have been too difficult. 

[ramarren]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Firmware updates are often a marketing tool increasing or maintaining product awareness and customer loyalty. 

...and ...? 

If it doesn't need one, it doesn't need one. Now, of course, you might consider that any of the modern Leicas might need an update to refresh the lens profiles for compatibility with newer Leica lens products made on an ongoing basis. But in all honesty, I could care less if there were any updates to the CL since about two or three major firmware updates ago. The camera worked perfectly at that point, and I've gotten little practical value out of any of the later updates. All the later updates did was add another annoying screen I don't need to the MENU sequence and address, perhaps, some AF things ... and I only use manual focus lenses. 

G

Edited October 17, 2021 by ramarren

[FrozenInTime]

Focus point lock would be appreciated 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, ramarren said:

...and ...? 

If it doesn't need one, it doesn't need one. Now, of course, you might consider that any of the modern Leicas might need an update to refresh the lens profiles for compatibility with newer Leica lens products made on an ongoing basis. But in all honesty, I could care less if there were any updates to the CL since about two or three major firmware updates ago. The camera worked perfectly at that point, and I've gotten little practical value out of any of the later updates. All the later updates did was add another annoying screen I don't need to the MENU sequence and address, perhaps, some AF things ... and I only use manual focus lenses. 

G

There is always a bug to fix or an "improvement" to be made.  The issuing of meaningless updates is a way of keeping the customer interested.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

There is always a bug to fix or an "improvement" to be made.  The issuing of meaningless updates is a way of keeping the customer interested.

Not been my experience, but then I’m just a happy user.

The continuation of the TL means little to me, to be honest.  Much like the predicted death of just about every Leica, based on “fact”, and tealeaves …

Edited October 17, 2021 by IkarusJohn

[tom0511]

The acutal Leica Cl has 24MP, a good viewfiner and works pretty well.

I agree that Leica should inform us about the product strategy.

However I am not a fan at all of Fuji/Sony strategy - to bring out new products every 6 months.

Do we really need a new Iphone every year and a new camera generation (with just some new features) every 2 years?

We talk about green planet, about simplifying life. I am glad Leica product cycle is a little longer than other camera brands.

[gotium]

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Agree the CL is really good now and I don't feel any need for an update yet. At some point there'll be silent global shutters and better high ISO performance that would be nice to have. More to the point, I'd like to see more lenses - a wide angle prime that is both fast and good, and a fast portrait lens, as I mentioned somewhere above. And I would LOVE if they would fix the wandering focus point (same goes for the Q series, BTW). But if Leica loses interest we'll see none of that.

[ruskkyle]

I agree, giving a bit of attention to the lens line would go a long way to bolstering interest in this ecosystem. Seems like a lot of folks are happy with their CLs just as they are and that’s fine. But bring one or two more, for instance, fast primes to the table (a wide summilux 🙏🏼) and it would both keep existing owners interested and boost sales of any new bodies down the line.

[jonoslack]

I'd love to see a weathersealed CL2 with IBIS, but I guess in the current climate (with Covid and chip shortages) it's likely to be some time.

On the other hand the CL ain't broke!

All the best

[Louis]

I’ve also heard about the delay on Leica  schedule because of COVID; and besides, it seems the dealers still have a considerable stock of CL despite the success and the popularity of this camera.

As Jono suggested, it may take sometime before we see any new camera… if any!

But that said, I still believe Leica AG owes us a heads up. We should know what direction we ( the CL users ) should take in our future investments for camera or lens. But it seems they won’t tell us anything till the whole remaining stock is gone!

Meanwhile, I keep enjoying my excellent CL every day as long as it keeps working.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Louis

[rob_w]

Louis, they are more likely to sell stock if they indicate their continued commitment to the model line.  They do not have to say when updates are coming or otherwise affect existing sales prospects. 

I for one would feel much less confident to buy a CL now than I did 3 years ago.  If nothing else, that looks like bad marketing practice on Leica's part, assuming other prospective buyers feel as I do.   (Unless, of course, they are NOT committed to the model line, in which case silence is probably the closest they can get to honesty!)

[ramarren]

A camera is not an "investment" ... it's a capital acquisition, a tool, which depreciates over time. I buy tools based on what they do at the time I am in need of one, not in reference to what they might do or have available in the future. The value of a tool depends on what you do with it, not what it is, as long as it does what you need or want to do with it. 

I note that my CL completely ignores this notion of being confident in its capability. It just works, exactly as well today as it did in the Summer of 2018 when I bought it, and makes beautiful photographs. If it broke and was not repairable, I'd buy another one immediately because it suits my needs for this type of camera so well. 

G

Edited October 22, 2021 by ramarren

[Kim Dahl]

I think this is an important discussion.  Because I understand both views.  CL is a good camera.  But I bought TL2 - I'm happy with it BUT - I would like a better lcd. Then I can use my M lenses.  That's why I think of CL or SL.  
But I think SL2 is too big and if I have to use my TL optics then it has to be SL2 with 47 MP.  
 

But with that silence from Leica, I strongly consider leaving L Mount and only having M optics left.  

Today and tomorrow I test SL2. And my first impression (from today) is it is too big and iso is best at (3200) 6400 or below.  It’s bad. My Old Nikon D5 is vay better. 
I would really hate to have to leave Leica L / TL and only have M lenses left. Then maybe leave the M system completely later.
Leica has been giving so much joy.  But I know I will regret if I buy a big and clumsy system.

[Kim Dahl]

And just to make it perfectly clear.  I do not want to buy more into a system (CL/TL) that might / might not stop, and where I will later have to buy SL to utilize my TL lenses.

[SoCalLeicanator]

14 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I'd love to see a weathersealed CL2 with IBIS, but I guess in the current climate (with Covid and chip shortages) it's likely to be some time.

On the other hand the CL ain't broke!

All the best

Thus sprach zarathustra.  Still wish I knew if my lenses will have a home in 10 years. . . .

Edited October 23, 2021 by SoCalLeicanator

[ramarren]

19 hours ago, SoCalLeicanator said:

Thus sprach zarathustra.  Still wish I knew if my lenses will have a home in 10 years. . . .

My Olympus E-1 body was first put into service in 2003, and is still going strong along with its Zuiko Digital lenses. My Olympus E-M1 body was first put into service in 2013, and is still going strong. That's 18 years and 8 years respectively for the two bodies.

I can't imagine that the Leica CL body will up and die until at least a similar amount of time has gone past, 18-20 years, should I care to keep using it. So I don't really understand the notion that your lenses will not "have a home"... My CL is three years and 27,000 exposures old. Looks and operates as if new. Keep it clean, use it with appropriate respect for the fine piece of mechanical and electronic gear that it is, and it'll likely be around and working fine for twenty years at least. 

Most digital cameras I've owned, bought since 2001, and sold to friends and family, are still in use, still working fine. Most people who are camera buffs buy new cameras FAR more frequently than the equipment needs replacement...

G

[Louis]

27 minutes ago, ramarren said:

My Olympus E-1 body was first put into service in 2003, and is still going strong along with its Zuiko Digital lenses. My Olympus E-M1 body was first put into service in 2013, and is still going strong. That's 18 years and 8 years respectively for the two bodies.

I can't imagine that the Leica CL body will up and die until at least a similar amount of time has gone past, 18-20 years, should I care to keep using it. So I don't really understand the notion that your lenses will not "have a home"... My CL is three years and 27,000 exposures old. Looks and operates as if new. Keep it clean, use it with appropriate respect for the fine piece of mechanical and electronic gear that it is, and it'll likely be around and working fine for twenty years at least. 

Most digital cameras I've owned, bought since 2001, and sold to friends and family, are still in use, still working fine. Most people who are camera buffs buy new cameras FAR more frequently than the equipment needs replacement...

G

Give us a few names of your friends and relatives so we know where to sell our CL equipment if the production stops!...  

[ramarren]

Sorry they already have fine working cameras that do the job for them... 😉

G

[Enrique Santa]

I think is all about respect . We all are confident in Leica quality and spend and extra money because we love photography and Leica products . As loyal customers we need some respect from Leica . Is not about the necesity of a new CL , at least for me my CL is working pretty well , is all about some news, lenses, updates...that show us that the system is still alive. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ramarren]

Respect? Really?

The respect I want is when I have a problem with a piece of gear I bought from a company and the manufacturer and/or vendor is there to assist with solving the issue. I don't need, never expect, a manufacturer of cameras and other such "light hardware" to cozen to me what their plans for the future are beyond what they say to the entire world regardless of how much money I've paid for their products. That kind of respect isn't included in the purchase price. 

I might have other relationships with the manufacturer or vendor that do warrant that kind of "respect" ... They usually come about because I'm promoting the brand in some way or helping them develop or test something, and I have a line of communication with the marketing, sales, and/or engineering personnel who work there. From those sorts of relationships, i often will obtain advance information on company planning, but not from just being a happy customer and buying their gear.

I recall someone fairly famous speaker at a conference once upon a time discussing customer support: "Just because some company's products are expensive doesn't necessarily mean that buying one of them entitles you to anything more than the product you paid for along with the service and support that purchase entitles you to." New product information prior to release is considered very high value, sensitive information that should be handed out only as needed to essential partners. 

G