Leica SL2 on Sports & Wildlife Photography

[ccalberti1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I have been out of action in the thread I started for a while. Two years in & out of the pandemic restricted international travel for me did shifted more of my interest into BIF photography. It started with me curious about 600mm & beyond primes instead of only third party zooms with no faster aperture than F6.3 if i were to continue with my SL2. Much in mirrorless bodies offering specific subject detection as Birds, Airplanes caught my curiosity even more. With the introduction of built in teleconverter primes at 400mm F2.8 & 600mm F4 in late 2022, I picked up a Nikor Z 600mm TC VRS when it became available in 2023.

I've not had a single Nikon camera before. So pairing with the 600mm prime I picked up a Nikon Z9. Having only had experience in using a mirrorless Leica SL & SL2, I had to learn everything in the AF setting up from scratch.

The Nikon Z9 & 600mm F4 prime lens (840mm F5.6 at a flip of a toggle switch on the lens barrel) did performed with easier picking up of the subject in frame due to the subject recogniction and stayed on the subject once focus lock triggered offering higher success rate at 20fps RAW shooting provided user does not loose subject out of frame over time.

However there were still the same frastration of not being able to focus lock on subject against strong back light on less instances compared to SL2. So no magic pill from Phase Detect over Contrast Detect AF offered by SL & SL2. After comparing both AF detection methods, my conclusion is firmly on the much faster processor chip offered on the Z8 & Z9 over the SL2 and likely the SL3 as well since the Leica AFC continuous shooting frame rate with full AF still stays at 5fps.

My comments are completely neutral & factual taking out emotions comparing what Leica limitation could offer in mirrorless bodies & AF lenses for wildlife photography although modarator may not like me saying so in a Leica camera forum (no problem for me to shut up and stay out,...). I still love the colour and rendering of images the Leica glasses could offer compared to the other full frame lenses in the available focal length range.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

IMG_6413.heic 872.5 kB · 2 downloads

I had a similar experience.  I tried pairing my SL2 with the Leica 100-400, but with the 1.4x TC the starting aperture was f/9, which is far too slow in terms of lens speed and autofocus capture to be effective at long distances.  I bought a Sony A7R5/Sony 200-600 combo for BIF and wildlife, and I use my Leica kit (SL2 and M10-R, and assorted M and L-mount lenses) for everything else, which is what Leicas are designed for.  Thanks for stepping back into this thread.

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, ccalberti1953 said:

I had a similar experience.  I tried pairing my SL2 with the Leica 100-400, but with the 1.4x TC the starting aperture was f/9, which is far too slow in terms of lens speed and autofocus capture to be effective at long distances.  I bought a Sony A7R5/Sony 200-600 combo for BIF and wildlife, and I use my Leica kit (SL2 and M10-R, and assorted M and L-mount lenses) for everything else, which is what Leicas are designed for.  Thanks for stepping back into this thread.

I'm now building up my Z-mount inventory. Being satisfied user of the Nikor Z 600mm TC VRS, I'll fill up the gap with a newly released Nikor Z 180-600mm zoom for wildlife application. I also see my Z9 good for taking portraits, so a 85mm F1.2 will be on my list and hopefully a 35mm F1.2 will be released soon sometime this year which I am keen to fill it up. My M10R with lens kit of 35mm Summilux, 90mm Summicron, WATE will be used for my international travels and landscape application. 

[caf]

Experimenting with my new SL 100-400 on my SL2, the lens is fantastic and having owned the Sigma before when I had just bought my SL2 I can say the build quality and sturdiness alone making in my opinion easier to justify the price difference to the Sigma. I ended up returning the Sigma shortly after buying it due to the (admittedly perceived) lower build quality - and this was way before the Leica 100-400 got introduced.

The limiting factor in my opinion is the low-light noise quality of the SL2, I think the SL3 or SL2-S will be a better fit for this lens. Overall I'm very happy with the images and with the quality of the lens.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[caf]

Another example with SL2 + SL 100-400 from quite a distance away... with APS-C crop.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[alphahydro15]

Just another perspective from a total noob.  

First, I think it's helpful to keep in mind that not all sports and wildlife photography puts an equal amount of stress on the AF system.  A lot of safari photos are basically portraits (not all, obviously, and no offense intended).  BIF, in my mind, puts as much stress on the focusing system (be it manual focus and tons of skill and experience or the latest AF tech) as anything. 

I have no opinion on whether the SL2 is a good camera for anyone looking to capture BIF. 

But I can relate my experience when it comes to using the SL2 for other sports and wildlife photography. 

First, youth sports. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge posed to the focusing system, I think of youth soccer as a 4/10).

My son plays soccer.  I have taken what I think are excellent photos of him playing soccer with 50 lux M, 75 nocti M, and the X1D in manual focus (hardest of them all, tbh.)

I've also used the 90-280 in AF on the SL2.  I think the hit rate with the 90-280 in full AF was 95%+.  IMO, if you want to occasionally take photos of your kids running around and playing youth sports, there's no reason to choose a camera based on the AF tech. 

Second, dogs at play. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge on the focusing system, I think of dogs running around as a 7/10).

I just got the Sigma 500mm f5.6 (to take photos of my son playing soccer and other random stuff). 

Took it out yesterday and today and snapped some pics of the dog running around while I figured out how to use the AF system with the new lens.  I think the hit rate was closer to 50-60% of my dog running at full speed.  And often the focus just missed by an inch or so.  But that was just me messing around randomly.  No skill whatsoever, just set the camera to eye detection and pointed the lens at the dog. With more skill/experience, I think I could improve on that significantly.  I used eye detection (seemed to work best).  Was overcast, so I switched between 1/200 shutter speed and 1/1000 at ~2500 iso.  All wide open. 

I don't mean to jump into the debate about the merits of SL2 AF system relative to others.  the point of this post is for folks like me who want to take some form of milder sports/wildlife photographs for personal use every now and then.  I would say the SL2 is more than sufficient for youth sports/personal photos, and is perfectly fine for the equivalent of dogs running around, assuming the photos are for personal use.  If you are a professional, or you want to take photos of birds in flight, I have nothing for ya.  cheers. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[sillbeers15]

13 minutes ago, alphahydro15 said:

Just another perspective from a total noob.  

First, I think it's helpful to keep in mind that not all sports and wildlife photography puts an equal amount of stress on the AF system.  A lot of safari photos are basically portraits (not all, obviously, and no offense intended).  BIF, in my mind, puts as much stress on the focusing system (be it manual focus and tons of skill and experience or the latest AF tech) as anything. 

I have no opinion on whether the SL2 is a good camera for anyone looking to capture BIF. 

But I can relate my experience when it comes to using the SL2 for other sports and wildlife photography. 

First, youth sports. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge posed to the focusing system, I think of youth soccer as a 4/10).

My son plays soccer.  I have taken what I think are excellent photos of him playing soccer with 50 lux M, 75 nocti M, and the X1D in manual focus (hardest of them all, tbh.)

I've also used the 90-280 in AF on the SL2.  I think the hit rate with the 90-280 in full AF was 95%+.  IMO, if you want to occasionally take photos of your kids running around and playing youth sports, there's no reason to choose a camera based on the AF tech. 

Second, dogs at play. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge on the focusing system, I think of dogs running around as a 7/10).

I just got the Sigma 500mm f5.6 (to take photos of my son playing soccer and other random stuff). 

Took it out yesterday and today and snapped some pics of the dog running around while I figured out how to use the AF system with the new lens.  I think the hit rate was closer to 50-60% of my dog running at full speed.  And often the focus just missed by an inch or so.  But that was just me messing around randomly.  No skill whatsoever, just set the camera to eye detection and pointed the lens at the dog. With more skill/experience, I think I could improve on that significantly.  I used eye detection (seemed to work best).  Was overcast, so I switched between 1/200 shutter speed and 1/1000 at ~2500 iso.  All wide open. 

I don't mean to jump into the debate about the merits of SL2 AF system relative to others.  the point of this post is for folks like me who want to take some form of milder sports/wildlife photographs for personal use every now and then.  I would say the SL2 is more than sufficient for youth sports/personal photos, and is perfectly fine for the equivalent of dogs running around, assuming the photos are for personal use.  If you are a professional, or you want to take photos of birds in flight, I have nothing for ya.  cheers. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You absolutely have a valid point. We all reference our camera capability through our photography applications & handling experiences. It makes no sense to expect the SL series cameras to be the best in class as each definition can differ from the other and in no time another new release from another camera maker can exceed the present class leader.

I have had my good experiences with SL and later SL2. I found the eye detection and AFC working perfectly well for portraiture photography. I also used it fairly often taking BIF with my 90-280mm. AF Hit rate is OK but more frustration was on the success rate of locking focus on subject as there was no subject detection available for Bird & Aircraft back then ( so does most other makers back in 2019 when the SL2 was released).

However it is a different story when the major full frame mirrorless camera makers all offer AF with various subject detection on AFC at continuous shooting at 20 fps RAW by Sony, Nikon & Canon with much better range of AF lenses available in 2024. 
 

The SL3 may still be relevant to most SL2 users in terms of their applications. However the capability gap is widened when compared with other mirrorless cameras. The range of SL lenses seems stagnant. How to feel excited about SL3 as a new product?

[alphahydro15]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

You absolutely have a valid point. We all reference our camera capability through our photography applications & handling experiences. It makes no sense to expect the SL series cameras to be the best in class as each definition can differ from the other and in no time another new release from another camera maker can exceed the present class leader.

I have had my good experiences with SL and later SL2. I found the eye detection and AFC working perfectly well for portraiture photography. I also used it fairly often taking BIF with my 90-280mm. AF Hit rate is OK but more frustration was on the success rate of locking focus on subject as there was no subject detection available for Bird & Aircraft back then ( so does most other makers back in 2019 when the SL2 was released).

However it is a different story when the major full frame mirrorless camera makers all offer AF with various subject detection on AFC at continuous shooting at 20 fps RAW by Sony, Nikon & Canon with much better range of AF lenses available in 2024. 
 

The SL3 may still be relevant to most SL2 users in terms of their applications. However the capability gap is widened when compared with other mirrorless cameras. The range of SL lenses seems stagnant. How to feel excited about SL3 as a new product?

This is my personal perspective:  

Right now, I have an SL2 because for me, based on my personal tastes, the SL2 + 35 APO SL & 75 Noctilux is the combination of camera and lens that best delivers what I want across the set of photos that matter to me. 

When it comes to autofocus+telephoto, for my needs (basically personal use youth sports photography and an occasional moving animal), I have found the SL2 to be more than adequate.

This is not to discount the experience of someone who takes a lot of photos of birds in flight or does sports photography for a living.  I can totally understand that, in contexts that don't apply to my photography, the superiority of the AF systems offered by other brands could make a significant difference. 

I only posted for the benefit of other people like me who might come across this thread and wonder - is the SL2 AF system sufficient for my needs if I want to take casual, personal use sports and wildlife photography?  Do I need a Sony A1 (or even an SL3 or SL2-S) if I want to go on the occasional safari or take photos of my kids running around?  I think the answer for just about everyone is no, the SL2 is just fine.  

Having said that, I would not say the same thing about the Hasselblad x1Dii.  I thought the autofocus on the x1d was so laggy it was something I had to work around for all but the most static photos. 

Regarding your last two sentences, I don't really have an opinion on how many SL lenses Leica should offer or whether they should produce an SL camera with state of the art AF. 

I have owned Leica M, Leica SL, Sony, Fuji, Canon, Nikon, and Hasselblad.  I am not loyal to any brand.  Right now, I have the SL2.  If I preferred M11 images to those from the APO SL primes on the SL2, I would go back to M in a heartbeat, because I prefer the M experience.  If Hasselblad was snappier, I would consider going back to the x series.  If Nikon made a normal and portrait lens I liked better, I would switch to Nikon.  But personally I would never switch to another brand for a better autofocus system because the SL2 meets my needs.  For me, going to Sony for the AF system would be like changing my car for a minivan because the minivan has more seating capacity (which I don't need) or swapping my car for a giant truck with more towing capacity (which I don't need either).  But I understand that people whose needs differ from mine want to buy minivans and trucks.  ought Leica to offer more SL lenses and better AF in an SL body?  should they offer the equivalent of minivans and trucks, instead of focusing on sedans?  I have no idea.  I don't know that much about the camera business. 

I only posted for the benefit of anyone reading this thread, trying to make a purchase decision, wondering about the SL2 AF performance in the normal, non-extreme cases of casual sports and wildlife photography.  I understand that my post may not be relevant to other parts of the discussion. 

cheers. 

[Bikie John]

8 hours ago, alphahydro15 said:

Just another perspective from a total noob.  

First, I think it's helpful to keep in mind that not all sports and wildlife photography puts an equal amount of stress on the AF system.  A lot of safari photos are basically portraits (not all, obviously, and no offense intended).  BIF, in my mind, puts as much stress on the focusing system (be it manual focus and tons of skill and experience or the latest AF tech) as anything. 

I have no opinion on whether the SL2 is a good camera for anyone looking to capture BIF. 

But I can relate my experience when it comes to using the SL2 for other sports and wildlife photography. 

First, youth sports. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge posed to the focusing system, I think of youth soccer as a 4/10).

My son plays soccer.  I have taken what I think are excellent photos of him playing soccer with 50 lux M, 75 nocti M, and the X1D in manual focus (hardest of them all, tbh.)

I've also used the 90-280 in AF on the SL2.  I think the hit rate with the 90-280 in full AF was 95%+.  IMO, if you want to occasionally take photos of your kids running around and playing youth sports, there's no reason to choose a camera based on the AF tech. 

Second, dogs at play. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge on the focusing system, I think of dogs running around as a 7/10).

I just got the Sigma 500mm f5.6 (to take photos of my son playing soccer and other random stuff). 

Took it out yesterday and today and snapped some pics of the dog running around while I figured out how to use the AF system with the new lens.  I think the hit rate was closer to 50-60% of my dog running at full speed.  And often the focus just missed by an inch or so.  But that was just me messing around randomly.  No skill whatsoever, just set the camera to eye detection and pointed the lens at the dog. With more skill/experience, I think I could improve on that significantly.  I used eye detection (seemed to work best).  Was overcast, so I switched between 1/200 shutter speed and 1/1000 at ~2500 iso.  All wide open. 

I don't mean to jump into the debate about the merits of SL2 AF system relative to others.  the point of this post is for folks like me who want to take some form of milder sports/wildlife photographs for personal use every now and then.  I would say the SL2 is more than sufficient for youth sports/personal photos, and is perfectly fine for the equivalent of dogs running around, assuming the photos are for personal use.  If you are a professional, or you want to take photos of birds in flight, I have nothing for ya.  cheers. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

A very good point, clearly put - thank you. It is all too easy to get caught up in an endless chase for "better" to the extent that we lose sight of what is plenty good enough.

I like your rating of bird-in-flight photography as 10 out of 10 on the AF hardness scale! Pretty good assessment I reckon.

John

[jaapv]

All this theorizing… I have the impression that nobody ever bothers to look through our Wildlife forum, nor through the image threads dedicated to long lenses like the. Sigma L lenses….
there are amazing results there.

It does not come down to the last microsecond of AF speed or PDAF or whatever. The first time I used Leica for Wildlife was with an M4 Visoflex 3 and Telyt V 400 “Trombone “ in the Masai Mara in 1988. The results were more than good. However the AF on the system was sub-par. I am sure that the sports photographers amongst us will make the same argument. 
I have bee using manual focus on long lenses up to the advent of the Sigma 150-600.  Still , over the years, there has been little difference in the results I got and those of other wildlife photographers I met on my travels, even if they carried Canikon ( Sony is a latecomer , rarely seen in the field but ntil recently) gear. This thread is about convenience, not suitability. 
 

And yes, BIF is difficult, I try but I suck at it despite dedicated tools like a dot sight. My best ones were years ago, using the 105-280 R and  R8/DMR. 

[HPFM]

Comparing the SL2 (which I still own..) with my brand new SL3 and the "animal detection AF": The SL3 AF detects birds behind branches... a good job, imo

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[BernardC]

13 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

However it is a different story when the major full frame mirrorless camera makers all offer AF with various subject detection on AFC at continuous shooting at 20 fps RAW by Sony, Nikon & Canon with much better range of AF lenses available in 2024. 

To be fair, each of these systems offers one body with great AF, which costs almost as much as the SL3. I posted a video link a month back from an F1 photographer who told us that the R5 isn't good enough for action (he uses it for video and higher resolution). His peers all use Canon or Nikon.

If that's the level of AF performance that you need, your short list consists of the Z9 and R3. The only other option is to wait for the R1, which may be out in time for the Olympics (but regular punters will need to wait longer).

I'm not sure which lens is missing from the L-mount lineup. Certainly the $10,000+ big-gun telephotos (for which you need an R3 or Z9), but other than that it's a draw. Each system has some exclusives, including L-mount.

[drjonb]

Sigma 60-600mm

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[drjonb]

Sigma 60-600

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

23 hours ago, alphahydro15 said:

Just another perspective from a total noob.  

First, I think it's helpful to keep in mind that not all sports and wildlife photography puts an equal amount of stress on the AF system.  A lot of safari photos are basically portraits (not all, obviously, and no offense intended).  BIF, in my mind, puts as much stress on the focusing system (be it manual focus and tons of skill and experience or the latest AF tech) as anything. 

I have no opinion on whether the SL2 is a good camera for anyone looking to capture BIF. 

But I can relate my experience when it comes to using the SL2 for other sports and wildlife photography. 

First, youth sports. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge posed to the focusing system, I think of youth soccer as a 4/10).

My son plays soccer.  I have taken what I think are excellent photos of him playing soccer with 50 lux M, 75 nocti M, and the X1D in manual focus (hardest of them all, tbh.)

I've also used the 90-280 in AF on the SL2.  I think the hit rate with the 90-280 in full AF was 95%+.  IMO, if you want to occasionally take photos of your kids running around and playing youth sports, there's no reason to choose a camera based on the AF tech. 

Second, dogs at play. (If BIF is a 10/10 in terms of challenge on the focusing system, I think of dogs running around as a 7/10).

I just got the Sigma 500mm f5.6 (to take photos of my son playing soccer and other random stuff). 

Took it out yesterday and today and snapped some pics of the dog running around while I figured out how to use the AF system with the new lens.  I think the hit rate was closer to 50-60% of my dog running at full speed.  And often the focus just missed by an inch or so.  But that was just me messing around randomly.  No skill whatsoever, just set the camera to eye detection and pointed the lens at the dog. With more skill/experience, I think I could improve on that significantly.  I used eye detection (seemed to work best).  Was overcast, so I switched between 1/200 shutter speed and 1/1000 at ~2500 iso.  All wide open. 

I don't mean to jump into the debate about the merits of SL2 AF system relative to others.  the point of this post is for folks like me who want to take some form of milder sports/wildlife photographs for personal use every now and then.  I would say the SL2 is more than sufficient for youth sports/personal photos, and is perfectly fine for the equivalent of dogs running around, assuming the photos are for personal use.  If you are a professional, or you want to take photos of birds in flight, I have nothing for ya.  cheers. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Well said!

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

22 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

However it is a different story when the major full frame mirrorless camera makers all offer AF with various subject detection on AFC at continuous shooting at 20 fps RAW by Sony, Nikon & Canon with much better range of AF lenses available in 2024. 

And yet none of those cameras match the resolution/IQ potential of the SL3. So you're choosing speed or IQ.

A valid argument is that all the other cameras offer IQ which is more than good enough most of the time. You can counter with the AF capabilities of the SL3 are good enough most of the time.

Sony and Nikon are chasing the speed market, hard. Leica is not. I still don't get how potential buyers don't get this. Buy a Z8 and move on. *If* Leica were evan able to secure a stacked sensor (which Sony and Nikon aren't sharing for now), then we get to keep on with these silly and vague comparisons.

The SL3 is a competitor to the X2D and GFX100II. Not the A9II, R3 or Z9.

Gordon

p.s. And the L mount has double the lenses Canon offer in R mount. Just not the super teles.

[BLeventhal]

5 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And yet none of those cameras match the resolution/IQ potential of the SL3. So you're choosing speed or IQ.

A valid argument is that all the other cameras offer IQ which is more than good enough most of the time. You can counter with the AF capabilities of the SL3 are good enough most of the time.

....I still don't get how potential buyers don't get this. Buy a Z8 and move on. *If* Leica were evan able to secure a stacked sensor (which Sony and Nikon aren't sharing for now), then we get to keep on with these silly and vague comparisons.

The SL3 is a competitor to the X2D and GFX100II. Not the A9II, R3 or Z9.

Gordon

p.s. And the L mount has double the lenses Canon offer in R mount. Just not the super teles.

While it's not feasible for many buyers to be a multiple system shooter, I completely agree with FlashGorden's sentiment. The Leica SL system is well suited to landscape, architecture, abstracts, portraiture, city life, family, art, and so on... it is not well suited to tracking fast action. As I have shared recently, I have been bitten by the SL bug, but this bite will not translate into the sale of my Nikon gear. To be clear, my Nikon's can do everything that my SL's can do, and do it better, but there are intangible characteristics in the SL system that make me want to use it. 

Tomorrow I'll be heading out to photograph owlets and nesting cormorants, but I'll be leaving my SL kit home. The Nikon Z8 and Z9 are far better at capturing the decisive moment when it comes to wildlife. At 10-20FPS, its AF is sticky and allows for flexible composition. However, whenever I go out to photograph a sunrise, waves on the beach, and patterns in a forest, the SL gear will be my gear of choice. In this latter case, the camera and I are not trying to track unpredictable action, instead the cameras become an extension of a contemplative process that will hopefully end in an interesting image.

cheers,... bruce

[drjonb]

9 hours ago, drjonb said:

Sigma 60-600

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Luke_Miller]

12 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

 To be clear, my Nikon's can do everything that my SL's can do, and do it better, but there are intangible characteristics in the SL system that make me want to use it. 

I agree.  Just the way the SL bodies feel in my hands make me want to go photograph.  In my case one of the tangible benefits is that the Leica APO Summicrons won't fit on my Nikons. 🙂

[Manicouagan1]

SL2 - Sigma  15-600mm at 600mm, 1/2000 sec, f7.1, ISO 400, handheld taken from a dock in Galveston Bay near Seabrook,Texas

,The camera and lens combination is just fine in bright sunlight, but it takes a lot of practice to get good results of birds in flight, but it can be done.\

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[MEB]

My new next door neighbor.  SL2 with Vario-Elmarit 90-280.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!