Leica Glass Prices!

[adan]

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In 1960, the exchange rate was $2.80=£1 - it wasn't until 1967 that PM Harold Wilson devalued that to $2.40=£1. (Great for my family, since we were on sabbatical in Canterbury 67-68, getting paid in $US, but spending our money in the UK in the newly-discounted £UK. ).

But for the purposes of this thread, "only" about a 14% difference.

Although there were variations and complexities - I remember the thrill of buying a standard/small Matchbox™ car toy in Southampton for 'arf-a-crown (tax included), which would at that time has cost about $1.00 plus tax in my US hometown.

 

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[Alan J]

The increase in price for both used glass and bodies in most case's is truly astonishing to me. Can it be just increased Ebay fees? or is there something bigger here at work? Used prices seem through the roof in the last 2 years or so.

Leica gears seems to simply trickle out and yet prices move higher. Technology wise there are many choices, so it simply cant be because of beyond belief technology within the camera body and sensor.

Leica gear seems to find a fairly narrow clientele with disposable income - and they will always be able to afford what is desired. So is it just a blip on the radar for now, or something tied to the current Covid economy? When will the prices return to earth?

[Mute-on]

Most recently the asking prices of black paint M4 bodies seem to have shot up. These are not eBay prices, but dealers. At the highest I’ve seen, they are AUD$10,000 up on 2017. 

[colint544]

Back in 2016, I had some spare money, and I decided to get a nice black chrome Leica M4, as a sort of 'forever' camera. I found one at Red Dot Cameras, a 1974 copy, and it was in pretty much mint minus condition. They wanted, I think it was, £1550 for it, a lot more than for an M6 at the time. It seemed a lot of money, but I paid it, and they sent it. And it was flawless, like new.

It's not mint minus any more - there are scratches on the baseplate, I've chipped a piece out of the vulcanite, and lost both white plastic indices out of the levers on the front. But it's still lovely, and I wouldn't want to part with it.

Anyway, I saw this today - a nice black chrome M4 at Red Dot Cameras.  Look at the price!! That's literally the price of a brand new M-A!

 

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Edited December 23, 2021 by colint544

[rtai]

When I switched to digital earlier this year I sold a lot of vintage lenses as well as my R system. No way could I anticipate a 35mm Summilux-R can sell for $7000. I sold mine for much less nowhere near that. I thought I got good prices but 6 months later they increased in value by 50 to 100%. More recently I passed on a first version e58 filter size Noctilux and in mere two months the price increases by 50%. It’s best not to dwell over it. I use my lenses and am not a collector nor a speculator. The money I got from those lenses I used to buy a bag full of modern Summilux glass and two digital bodies and with them I got some good images. That’s all I care about. The one I regret the most is selling an original black paint 50mm Summicron rigid with a brass mount. 

[jankap]

No, not the sellers in general are the problem. The collectors are the problem.

[wizard]

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Am 22.10.2021 um 04:49 schrieb Michael Geschlecht:

Does anyone out there know the exchange rate & date when Deutsch Marks were fixed to Euros for the conversion?

Yes, 1 Euro was fixed at 1.95583 Deutsche mark when the conversion took place.

[overexposed]

1 hour ago, wizard said:

Yes, 1 Euro was fixed at 1.95583 Deutsche mark when the conversion took place.

i still like to calculate the prices in reverse these days, just insane, i know its hardly comparable, but a friend just bought a house in hamburg for 700k euros, thats 1.4million marks(by the old exchange rate)

so, everything has appreciated like hell in the past years, and its no wonder, look at the central banks since 2008, printing nonstop, of course there is insane inflation, but it wasnt visible in most products for many years, not its becoming more apparent

[jankap]

2 hours ago, Artin said:

True but collectors are after rare shelf queens that is understandable, but let’s face the fact that lenses like 35 pre asph , 35 kbh. Noctilux F1. These are not collectable lenses. But they have more then doubled in price in less then 2 years .. an M6. One of the most Common bodies is selling fo 3.5 to 4 k.  That is just nuts 

I offered my Summilux 35mm asph to Fotomax in Nuremberg a few weeks ago. It is an - of course - used lens in an excellent condition with coding, hood, etc. They offered 1500 Euros, I refused the offer. 

[jaapv]

We have a Classifieds section here - you can deal to your heart's content.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/classifieds/

[jaapv]

Yes, but there is a marked absence of buyers...

[Ouroboros]

7 hours ago, colint544 said:

Back in 2016, I had some spare money, and I decided to get a nice black chrome Leica M4, as a sort of 'forever' camera. I found one at Red Dot Cameras, a 1974 copy, and it was in pretty much mint minus condition. They wanted, I think it was, £1550 for it, a lot more than for an M6 at the time. It seemed a lot of money, but I paid it, and they sent it. And it was flawless, like new.

It's not mint minus any more - there are scratches on the baseplate, I've chipped a piece out of the vulcanite, and lost both white plastic indices out of the levers on the front. But it's still lovely, and I wouldn't want to part with it.

Anyway, I saw this today - a nice black chrome M4 at Red Dot Cameras.  Look at the price!! That's literally the price of a brand new M-A!

 

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This is exactly the reason why earlier today I gave my eldest son the money to buy himself a new MP or M-A. 

He's been saving to buy himself an M4 or M6 but some used M prices have risen to the point where they are very close to the cost of a new film M.   

ETA:  I sold a late f1 noctilux to a member here around 6.5 years ago for £4850.   That same lens would probably sell for around £5k now, so despite the initial rocketing price the of f1 noctilux following discontinuation, it seems to have levelled off.

You can still buy a 50mm elmar-m f2.8 for around £700, a last version 90mm elmarit-m f2.8 for around £800-900 and a 21mm elmarit asph f2.8 for around £1250.  The used prices of many older M camera bodies of similar vintage to those lenses have risen more steeply by comparison.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ouroboros

[RayD28]

5 hours ago, Artin said:

I often ... weekly have been in conversations with one of the local dealers whom most of you know, he admittedly told me that purchasing and holding on to used Leica gear, selling them on the international market earns him 20% + on his investment annually. He has invested 2 million dollars in his inventory which makes him over 400,000 dollars a year.  This is where the problem is, it has become a full time courier and the main income to these guys where 5-6 years ago was just a side hobby.  

I'm surprised the markup is so low if he has a brick-n-mortar store.  He must do a lot of volume.  

45 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

This is exactly the reason why earlier today I gave my eldest son the money to buy himself a new MP or M-A.    

Steve, would you please adopt me?  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

This is exactly the reason why earlier today I gave my eldest son the money to buy himself a new MP or M-A. 

He's been saving to buy himself an M4 or M6 but some used M prices have risen to the point where they are very close to the cost of a new film M.   

ETA:  I sold a late f1 noctilux to a member here around 6.5 years ago for £4850.   That same lens would probably sell for around £5k now, so despite the initial rocketing price the of f1 noctilux following discontinuation, it seems to have levelled off.

You can still buy a 50mm elmar-m f2.8 for around £700, a last version 90mm elmarit-m f2.8 for around £800-900 and a 21mm elmarit asph f2.8 for around £1250.  The used prices of many older M camera bodies of similar vintage to those lenses have risen more steeply by comparison.

 

 

There are still plenty of relative bargains outside of the "glamour lenses".

I own the 90mm tele-elmarit thin ,28mm elmarit version 2 and 4 as well as the 50mm summicrom v5 silver and all of them superb performers at reasonable price.

I say keep on charging mega bucks for the darling lenses if the suckers want to pay for them.

[Ouroboros]

8 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

 

…..I say keep on charging mega bucks for the darling lenses if the suckers want to pay for them.

I don’t see why anyone who buys something they want, can use and can afford to do so is a ‘sucker’.

 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I don’t see why anyone who buys something they want, can use and can afford to do so is a ‘sucker’.

 

 

Maybe not but why whine about the price?

[jdlaing]

7 hours ago, Artin said:

Here is a case in example, there is a used Tri Elmar here on this site for sale ... the price he is asking for this used lens is exactly 400 dollars less then what I can buy it for brand new from a store here in Canada.  It has just gone mad 

Then you should buy it brand new.

[Herr Barnack]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:50 PM, steve 1959 said:

...

I say keep on charging mega bucks for the darling lenses if the suckers want to pay for them.

"Sucker" is a relative term. 

There are a lot of people out there who think/say that anyone who buys any camera or lens that says Leica on it is supposedly a "sucker."

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Herr Barnack

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[michali]

I'm very pleased that I bought my R & M lenses years ago when prices were still moderate+, but not the crazy prices we're seeing today. 

This craziness seems to apply to most luxury brand items. My daughter's looking for a Rolex 41mm Oyster Perpetual with coloured face, a watch that officially retails for around EUR7, 000-  Because I suspect that Rolex is throttling supply, these watches have been on sale on Chron24 at  +double retail at around EUR15, 000- Suddenly over the space of a week they're now priced at around EUR49, 000-  Complete madness!

Price last week:                                                                  Price this week: 😳

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A friend who's an ex-stockbroker reckons that this sudden price increase in luxury goods has everything to do with an impending stock market "collapse" which the hedge fund manager mafia etc. are trying to engineer by talking the markets down, in order to recover their short positions. I must admit that I don't know enough about this, just sharing a friend's opinion.

Edited December 25, 2021 by michali

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

"Sucker" is a relative term. 

There are a lot of people out there who think/say that anyone who buys any camera or lens that says Leica on it is supposedly a "sucker."

 

On reflection "sucker" is the wrong word.

The top priced leica lenses both new and used are priced just like any other luxury high end brand, too expensive for most people but not an issue if your very wealthy.