Any S to Fuji GFX100s Comparisons?

[ZHNL]

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6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

very interesting. But this is a "stupid" non AF adapter, right? How do you set aparture? How did you focus (magnification?)

IBIS for the 180 is usefull for sure, even though if I use 180mm it is often for non-totally-still subjects where a short exp time makes sense anyways.

 

Yes, it is a dumb one. You can set aperture using S camera with DOF preview and remove the lens. (but can't with SL2 because there is no DOF, what?!) Focus is the easiest part that FUJI gives you multiple manual focus aids mentioned early in this thread. 

IBIS won't freeze subject movement. However, I have to say, S's AF is useless for moving subject anyway. (not including parallel movement or small movement within DOF coverage.) IBIS make most of sense with this 180, and some for 120/100 for daily shooting. For wide angle like 35 or 24, handhold at 1/5~1/10S for beach and scene with water is also pretty cool. I hope S4 is a MF SL2 with IBIS.  

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[xiaubauu2009]

11 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Yes, it is a dumb one. You can set aperture using S camera with DOF preview and remove the lens. (but can't with SL2 because there is no DOF, what?!) Focus is the easiest part that FUJI gives you multiple manual focus aids mentioned early in this thread. 

IBIS won't freeze subject movement. However, I have to say, S's AF is useless for moving subject anyway. (not including parallel movement or small movement within DOF coverage.) IBIS make most of sense with this 180, and some for 120/100 for daily shooting. For wide angle like 35 or 24, handhold at 1/5~1/10S for beach and scene with water is also pretty cool. I hope S4 is a MF SL2 with IBIS.  

Do you need to set ithe focal length on the IBIS menu for IBIS to function properly??

[xiaubauu2009]

12 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Yes, it requires at least 1/250S and in field I use 1/500 actually and still be able to see hand shake occasionally. So I have to make a few exposures to make sure get a fully usable one and I have a very stable hand I think:) That was the reason I on longer take it on hiking without tripod and later sold it.  

Fuji actually claim 6 stops IBIS, a remarkable achievement with such a big sensor. (SL2 has 5 stop).  I made a few exposure at 1/8S and all of them decent with half of them are fully sharp. The percentage goes up with shorter exposure time. If I could make sure it fully usable at 1/60S, it will be good enough for most of tasks. Keep in mind, 100S sensor can at least give you another three stop shooting at ISO800 to have fully usable images. Basically, this make the only barrier using this 180 is size and weight. 

Just tried 35S, f11 will not reach infinity. I wouldn't expect 24 will either.  TBH, Fotodiox sucks given this is so simple a task. Someone bring a good one with aperture control please.   

why won't it reach infinity? Either the S180 has focus pass infinity build into it for tolerance? 

The adaptor must be pretty crap...

[ZHNL]

1 hour ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

Do you need to set ithe focal length on the IBIS menu for IBIS to function properly??

Yes, you can and must set the focal length to take advantage of it. 

[ZHNL]

55 minutes ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

why won't it reach infinity? Either the S180 has focus pass infinity build into it for tolerance? 

The adaptor must be pretty crap...

Because the adapter is too thick. All S glass that have real focus ring will pass infinity. 

you can think this way, treat adapter as close focus tube, the longer the focal length, the less close focus range it give. In other word, shorter focal length glass are more sensitive to flanging distance error. 

Forodiox is crappy as always but this is the only game in the town. 

 

BTW, I found a bug with GFX100S shutter. Every time, put camera in vertical with right side down, the shutter clog. I can repeat this problem. I see another report on shutter issue from Fred Miranda Fuji forum. Looks like they have QA issue. I hope this can be solved by firmware as I really don’t want return it or give the camera back. I absolutely love it.  

[Sarnian]

On 3/17/2021 at 10:53 AM, tom0511 said:

The only problem is the S3 body, which is still to new to find it for attractive prices.

 

The cheapest second-hand Mint S3 that I have seen is for $15,749: Used Leica S3 (mpb.com) Why would someone buy it new and then change their mind so quickly - and trade it in for a lot less than mpb are selling it for?! 

[xiaubauu2009]

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2 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Because the adapter is too thick. All S glass that have real focus ring will pass infinity. 

you can think this way, treat adapter as close focus tube, the longer the focal length, the less close focus range it give. In other word, shorter focal length glass are more sensitive to flanging distance error. 

Forodiox is crappy as always but this is the only game in the town. 

 

BTW, I found a bug with GFX100S shutter. Every time, put camera in vertical with right side down, the shutter clog. I can repeat this problem. I see another report on shutter issue from Fred Miranda Fuji forum. Looks like they have QA issue. I hope this can be solved by firmware as I really don’t want return it or give the camera back. I absolutely love it.  

well, looks like early adopter always have risk, particularly with this new framework camera from Fuji. remember the unstable electronics for early GFX100, 

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, Sarnian said:

The cheapest second-hand Mint S3 that I have seen is for $15,749: Used Leica S3 (mpb.com) Why would someone buy it new and then change their mind so quickly - and trade it in for a lot less than mpb are selling it for?! 

Another here, apparently not quite like new...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/1436753?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImu2upLa87wIVmInICh32qAUiEAQYASABEgItvfD_BwE
 

Some dealers will sell new Leica gear as ‘used mint’ or ‘open box’ as a way to discount full retail pricing.  Not to say either of these fit that scenario.  Some people have money to burn.

Jeff

[John Smith]

On 3/16/2021 at 9:55 AM, BernardC said:

,and I know S lenses have the ability to grab your attention from across a large room, and keep it all the way to nose-on-print distance.

 

I really liked the S and its lenses when I had them (35mm, 70mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 180mm), but I think this is overstating it a bit. I did a comparison last year of the 007 with the 70mm to the SL2 and 50mm Summilux and, frankly, the Summilux's renditions were better. I just took another look at @Chaemono's comparison of the 120mm to the 90mm Summicron-SL and the 90mm's rendition is better. I know that some have talked up the "cinematic" quality of the S lenses, but what is that supposed to mean? I don't think Peter Karbe came down from the mountain top after designing the S lenses. The SL lenses, the 75mm Noctilux, 50mm APO, 90mm Summilux, and now 35mm APO represent a new generation of higher performance. The 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux are stellar, equaling the sharpness of the Summicrons at the point of focus while rendering the kind of separation that it talked up in digital MF circles. Personally, I'm not looking at hiking back to the S lenses. I am, however, hoping that Leica decides to bring these new performance parameters to a mirrorless S4. That would be something else.      

Edited March 19, 2021 by John Smith

[BernardC]

8 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

why won't it reach infinity? Either the S180 has focus pass infinity build into it for tolerance?

Longer lenses have more focus movement, because focus movement is relative to focal length. The easy-to-remember rule is that a basic (non-IF) lens need to be extended by its focal length to reach 1:1 macro. So a 50mm lens needs a 50mm extension, and a 200mm needs to be extended by 200mm to reach 1:1.

Let's say the adapter is off by 1mm, which would be huge but it's an easy number to visualize. That's 0.55% of 180mm, but it's 3.3% of 30mm.

0.55% isn't a lot, and the 180 probably focuses slightly past infinity anyway to make-up for thermal expansion. So your images still look sharp.

That's not the case with wider lenses.

One other thing will happen: zooms will no longer hold focus across the zoom range. Zooms are only parfocal at one distance from the image plane (and one temperature, technically). An adapter that is too short or too long will make them varifocal.

 

You should know also that this adapter problem is a sign of tighter tolerances on S lenses, not looser. Leica can build their lenses to tighter tolerances because they build their bodies to tighter tolerances. Companies like Canon and Sony have made so many different camera bodies over the years (high-end and dirt-cheap) that they have to build more tolerance into their lenses. The AF systems automatically compensate for this anyway.

[helged]

19 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Longer lenses have more focus movement, because focus movement is relative to focal length. The easy-to-remember rule is that a basic (non-IF) lens need to be extended by its focal length to reach 1:1 macro. So a 50mm lens needs a 50mm extension, and a 200mm needs to be extended by 200mm to reach 1:1.

Let's say the adapter is off by 1mm, which would be huge but it's an easy number to visualize. That's 0.55% of 180mm, but it's 3.3% of 30mm.

0.55% isn't a lot, and the 180 probably focuses slightly past infinity anyway to make-up for thermal expansion. So your images still look sharp.

That's not the case with wider lenses.

One other thing will happen: zooms will no longer hold focus across the zoom range. Zooms are only parfocal at one distance from the image plane (and one temperature, technically). An adapter that is too short or too long will make them varifocal.

 

You should know also that this adapter problem is a sign of tighter tolerances on S lenses, not looser. Leica can build their lenses to tighter tolerances because they build their bodies to tighter tolerances. Companies like Canon and Sony have made so many different camera bodies over the years (high-end and dirt-cheap) that they have to build more tolerance into their lenses. The AF systems automatically compensate for this anyway.

Actually, the Fotodiox adapter is 5 mm too thick...

[bags27]

Not a comparison, but an intelligent review of the Fuji by someone who also has an SL2.

https://fcracer.com/fujifilm-gfx100s-first-impressions/

[BernardC]

29 minutes ago, helged said:

Actually, the Fotodiox adapter is 5 mm too thick...

Wow! That's a huge difference. No wonder wide lenses won't focus.

I have a Fotodiox M-to-L adapter that doesn't mount on most of my L-mount cameras, so I guess QC isn't a top priority for them.

[bags27]

I had a Fotodiox Mamiya 645 to Fuji GFX that was a disaster (the lens actually fell off!), and I contacted them. They were incredibly helpful and immediately sent another, more expensive model to me free (they took my word that I had purchased the first one), and that works fine. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by bags27

[John Smith]

1 hour ago, bags27 said:

Not a comparison, but an intelligent review of the Fuji by someone who also has an SL2.

https://fcracer.com/fujifilm-gfx100s-first-impressions/

A good review. As I wrote earlier, it'll be interesting to see if Leica decides to create a mirrorless S4—a Texas-size SL2. 

[tom0511]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb John Smith:

I really liked the S and its lenses when I had them (35mm, 70mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 180mm), but I think this is overstating it a bit. I did a comparison last year of the 007 with the 70mm to the SL2 and 50mm Summilux and, frankly, the Summilux's renditions were better. I just took another look at @Chaemono's comparison of the 120mm to the 90mm Summicron-SL and the 90mm's rendition is better. I know that some have talked up the "cinematic" quality of the S lenses, but what is that supposed to mean? I don't think Peter Karbe came down from the mountain top after designing the S lenses. The SL lenses, the 75mm Noctilux, 50mm APO, 90mm Summilux, and now 35mm APO represent a new generation of higher performance. The 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux are stellar, equaling the sharpness of the Summicrons at the point of focus while rendering the kind of separation that it talked up in digital MF circles. Personally, I'm not looking at hiking back to the S lenses. I am, however, hoping that Leica decides to bring these new performance parameters to a mirrorless S4. That would be something else.      

I find the SL lenses are maybe crisper/more pop, I however finde the S lenses render more gentle. Also the bigger S sensor has - in my unscientific finding - 1) better midtones (the SL2 images come out more contrasty) 2) a mire gentle transition from sharp focus distance to background. Also much less vignetting wide open.

[ZHNL]

3 hours ago, John Smith said:

I really liked the S and its lenses when I had them (35mm, 70mm, 100mm, 120mm, and 180mm), but I think this is overstating it a bit. I did a comparison last year of the 007 with the 70mm to the SL2 and 50mm Summilux and, frankly, the Summilux's renditions were better. I just took another look at @Chaemono's comparison of the 120mm to the 90mm Summicron-SL and the 90mm's rendition is better. I know that some have talked up the "cinematic" quality of the S lenses, but what is that supposed to mean? I don't think Peter Karbe came down from the mountain top after designing the S lenses. The SL lenses, the 75mm Noctilux, 50mm APO, 90mm Summilux, and now 35mm APO represent a new generation of higher performance. The 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux are stellar, equaling the sharpness of the Summicrons at the point of focus while rendering the kind of separation that it talked up in digital MF circles. Personally, I'm not looking at hiking back to the S lenses. I am, however, hoping that Leica decides to bring these new performance parameters to a mirrorless S4. That would be something else.      

I think we discussed about that 90 L and 120 S comparison. I feel there is no comparison LOL

[bags27]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

I find the SL lenses are maybe crisper/more pop, I however finde the S lenses render more gentle. Also the bigger S sensor has - in my unscientific finding - 1) better midtones (the SL2 images come out more contrasty) 2) a mire gentle transition from sharp focus distance to background. Also much less vignetting wide open.

I don't own either, though I follow them and that's my assessment, too. I prefer S glass results to any other digital images.

I don't know Fuji glass well, but the reviewer I cited used the very new 80 f/1.7, which, I think, is the fastest MF lens ever. And the results in that review, at least, seem much closer to the S aesthetic. Quite beautiful, actually. 

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[xiaubauu2009]

21 hours ago, BernardC said:

Longer lenses have more focus movement, because focus movement is relative to focal length. The easy-to-remember rule is that a basic (non-IF) lens need to be extended by its focal length to reach 1:1 macro. So a 50mm lens needs a 50mm extension, and a 200mm needs to be extended by 200mm to reach 1:1.

Let's say the adapter is off by 1mm, which would be huge but it's an easy number to visualize. That's 0.55% of 180mm, but it's 3.3% of 30mm.

0.55% isn't a lot, and the 180 probably focuses slightly past infinity anyway to make-up for thermal expansion. So your images still look sharp.

That's not the case with wider lenses.

One other thing will happen: zooms will no longer hold focus across the zoom range. Zooms are only parfocal at one distance from the image plane (and one temperature, technically). An adapter that is too short or too long will make them varifocal.

 

You should know also that this adapter problem is a sign of tighter tolerances on S lenses, not looser. Leica can build their lenses to tighter tolerances because they build their bodies to tighter tolerances. Companies like Canon and Sony have made so many different camera bodies over the years (high-end and dirt-cheap) that they have to build more tolerance into their lenses. The AF systems automatically compensate for this anyway.

Yes. That make sense. How can fotodiox make such a bad calculation or the mount flange. Hahaha.

[Sarnian]

I'm able to use Pentax 645 lenses on my S because of some clever clogs in Hong Kong who custom made me an adapter. I guess that's why I've invested quite heavily in heavily discounted S lenses as they will stand the test of time - and the megapixels race!