Firmware update: Perspective correction for the Leica M10-P, M10-R and M10 Monochrom

[scott kirkpatrick]

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A few thoughts -- 

"Computational imaging" can be much more than this, such as integrating the results from lenses of several focal lengths (most top smart phones do it), or automatic HDR and deep focus.  Wasting this term on such a simple step as calculating x and y shifts makes me wonder what Leica will call their next steps in this direction.

I love watching the scene with the PC frame floating around it, but I tend to forget the camera frame and as a result, don't hold the camera level unless I am already close to plumb and the PC frame is close to the edge of the camera frame,  But the visualization of level that the M0-R provides is very hard to use and distracting, so I previously kept it off.  The SL visualization -- just a horizontal red or green line, and a vertical channel aiming dot that turns green is much easier to work with.  I leave it on.  I'd like to have the bottom line of the PC frame turn green when I have the camera level.

The information that Leica now saves and passes to Adobe is readable, not encrypted, and could be used by other processing packages, such as COne.  It's just a list of four corner points.  COne has a perspective correction tool that lets you do x and y shifts together but you have to enter four corner points manually.  Unless therre is a patent-related reason, this should be an easy feature for others to support besides Adobe.  

Edited February 5, 2021 by scott kirkpatrick

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[Bikie John]

I have tried it with raw files from the M10-P and M10 Monochrom. The in-camera stuff works with both. The Lightroom end (LR Classic, desktop version, fully up to date) works beautifully with the M10-P - even better than I had hoped in some aspects.

But with the M10 Monochrom, LR just won't play ball at all. I can't find any combination of camera or LR options that will persuade LR to apply the corrections.

It looks like a bug but I don't have the heart to raise it with Leica or Adobe, as I don't fancy trying to be referee as each blames the other.

John

[howiebrou]

If i haven't updated my M10P firmware for a while which one should I update? Can i just go the most recent one?

[pedaes]

15 minutes ago, howiebrou said:

Can i just go the most recent one?

Yes. 

[Stephen.s1]

Works flawlessly w/ M10-P

[scott kirkpatrick]

10 hours ago, Bikie John said:

It looks like a bug but I don't have the heart to raise it with Leica or Adobe, as I don't fancy trying to be referee as each blames the other.

It does seem to be an Adobe bug.  As far as I can tell (I have a program that reads out the metadata that Leica writes into the DNG) Leica does its job correctly for the M10-M, just as it does for the other two models.  You are one of several on this forum who see this, so write to Leica customer service or join an Adobe forum and complain there.  You won't be the first to call in and your vote can only help.  One piece of evidence that Leica did their part is that the jpegs show up corrected in the camera.  The M files are different from Bayer filtered files, and Adobe must not have gotten this update into whatever part of Camera Raw it is that deals with -M files.

[Eesand]

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Dng only mode photoshop and acr:

what works

1. M 10-r

2. Shoot in live view- lcd playback will show perspective correction icon. 
3. acr settings to camera default gotta be there for the specific camera, m10-r  

4. Select Geometry panel, click guides, correction appears. You’re good to go. 
 

what doesn’t work. 
1. Shooting with live view off

2. M10m in acr

3. M10-p in acr

i vote for correction in dng’s with or without live view since you can turn it on or off in acr. New version of acr needed to support other cameras. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Eesand
Clarify

[Almbt]

It would be great if C1 Pro’s AUTO function (currently it works only with Phase One files, but in a similar fashion) could pick up the correction data from the DNGs. Via the percentage slider one you could then easily dial in the desired amount of correction. However, given C1’s issues with Leica (although tensions may have eased recently) and their speed at updating, I don’t see that coming in the near future... 

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 2/6/2021 at 4:14 AM, Eesand said:

Dng only mode photoshop and acr:

what works

1. M 10-r

2. Shoot in live view- lcd playback will show perspective correction icon. 
3. acr settings to camera default gotta be there for the specific camera, m10-r  

4. Select Geometry panel, click guides, correction appears. You’re good to go. 
 

what doesn’t work. 
1. Shooting with live view off

2. M10m in acr

3. M10-p in acr

i vote for correction in dng’s with or without live view since you can turn it on or off in acr. New version of acr needed to support other cameras. 

Even shooting my M10-R with live view off and PC off, the camera writes the corners of the calculated PC frame into the DNG's metadata in the usual place.  Some people say that all is well with the M10-P, but others report problems.  Does it work in LR but not in ACR/PS?  Does M10-M work anywhere?  Its metadata is correctly presented.   I think for once, we can blame Adobe rather than Leica for the stuff that isn't working yet. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by scott kirkpatrick

[Bikie John]

As far as I can see with the M10-P - it writes the metadata whether the camera setting is on or off, and whether Live View is active or not. Then, in both Lightroom and ACR/Photoshop:

 - IF the camera setting is "On", AND Live View is active, the perspective correction will be applied by default to the raw file. It can be switched off or modified.

- In all other cases, the raw file will be displayed without adjustment, selecting the "Guided" option in the transform section will apply it.

This is pretty much what I would expect and hope for and very nice.

With the M10 Monochrom, the in-camera stuff is fine, but neither Lightroom or ACR/Photoshop can be persuaded to take any notice of it.

Since other users have said that the M10M files contain the same metadata tags as the other bodies, I think we can say with a fair degree of confidence that the screw-up is Adobe's and not Leica's.

Leica's only screw-up is to launch it with a great fanfare saying how it has ben developed in conjunction with Adobe. I suspect that they are guinea-pigging it with the Ms before incorporating it in the rest of the line-up, so at least there will more pressure on Adobe to extract the digit.

John

[scott kirkpatrick]

The work to be done to add Perspective Correction to the three models with the fancy sensors is the same, from Leica's point of view.  But rendering a monochrom raw file is a different task than rendering a Bayer raw file.  And there is no synchronization between Leica and Adobe on releasing their upgrades, so I would hope that M10-M support comes along quickly, and without either party making much of a fuss over it.

These companies seem to share information only very carefully, if at all.  Notice that Leica has been working with Capture One recently (since they have separated the software business from the camera business of Phase One.)  S3 support appeared, and both SL2 and S3 cameras are now supported in realtime tethering by Capture One.  But the Live View image doesn't yet come across the cable even when the camera is being controlled from C1 and the images go exclusively to your laptop.  I bet that will also get fixed without much public fuss, in time.

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 2/6/2021 at 1:05 PM, Almbt said:

It would be great if C1 Pro’s AUTO function (currently it works only with Phase One files, but in a similar fashion) could pick up the correction data from the DNGs. Via the percentage slider one you could then easily dial in the desired amount of correction. However, given C1’s issues with Leica (although tensions may have eased recently) and their speed at updating, I don’t see that coming in the near future... 

That sounds like a piece of cake to me.  Leica has been working with Capture One recently.

[Eesand]

4 hours ago, Bikie John said:

As far as I can see with the M10-P - it writes the metadata whether the camera setting is on or off, and whether Live View is active or not. Then, in both Lightroom and ACR/Photoshop:

 - IF the camera setting is "On", AND Live View is active, the perspective correction will be applied by default to the raw file. It can be switched off or modified.

- In all other cases, the raw file will be displayed without adjustment, selecting the "Guided" option in the transform section will apply it.

This is pretty much what I would expect and hope for and very nice.

With the M10 Monochrom, the in-camera stuff is fine, but neither Lightroom or ACR/Photoshop can be persuaded to take any notice of it.

Since other users have said that the M10M files contain the same metadata tags as the other bodies, I think we can say with a fair degree of confidence that the screw-up is Adobe's and not Leica's.

Leica's only screw-up is to launch it with a great fanfare saying how it has ben developed in conjunction with Adobe. I suspect that they are guinea-pigging it with the Ms before incorporating it in the rest of the line-up, so at least there will more pressure on Adobe to extract the digit.

John

Yes, further observing indicates that this is correct, it's not quite clear what the behavior of the various previews is (in bridge, or the LCD, etc) across the various cameras with live view on or off.  But I now observe that the metadata is written in the dng's.  I think an update to acr still is needed for complete implementation, I think it's coming.

[SrMi]

Just heard from Leica that Adobe needs to implement missing support for M10-Monochrom.  It is expected to come with the CC update in March.

[BlueIn2Red]

Anybody notice that the previous M10-D firmware version was 2.7, and this is 2.2? I'm sure Leica know what they're doing though!

[AndreasG]

Previous version was indeed 2.7., but present one is 2.20., so it seems to be fine.

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[Matlock]

24 minutes ago, BlueIn2Red said:

Anybody notice that the previous M10-D firmware version was 2.7, and this is 2.2? I'm sure Leica know what they're doing though!

 It is 2.20.48.40. the previous version was 2.7.5.0.

[BlueIn2Red]

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Software versions don’t normally decrease as they get newer!

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Hallo,

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[UliWer]

Well, 20 isn't a decrease if you start at 7. 

[BlueIn2Red]

Ah, I see what was meant now - that's not how software versioning works. The digit after the 2 is the incremental version number (zero isn't normally bothered with though). So version 2.24 for example is older than 2.3. Anyway, no big deal of course, just thought it was odd that they've changed the numbering scheme so much, and effectively gone backwards.