Sony Wedding photographer switching systems

[Steven]

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48 minutes ago, Slender said:

In short:

They are not better, just different. A wide angle M lens (or other mirrorless lenses today) will always perform better than a R (or any other wide reflex lens) because the lens could be designed with the rear element much closer to the sensitive surface (which turned out to be a real challenge for leica to adapt the sensors of the first digitals M in 2006).

As we know, the popularity of the M was always, at its core, journalists and storytellers, documentary people... who usually prefer small/simple camera&lenses with a heavy leaning for lenses ranging in the wide-semi wide departement (28-35 became the norm over the 50 of yesteryear... 21/50/90 were always strong in the M catalog but then 28s and 35s exploded in popularity. So Leica always prioritized those great performing lenses and mastered them. The RF system makes those a breeze to focus accuratly compared to reflex cameras.
Conversely it is "easy" to make stellar longer focal length lenses with a reflex system because the rays travels in a straighter manner and the user can focus them better than with a rangefinder. Hence why many of the legendary, up to modern performance lenses in the R system are in the 80mm and above. So you could say maybe that Leica mastered their wides thanks to Leica M and mastered their macros and teles thanks to Leica R system. In any case they were very expensive and difficult to acquire, but some great names in the business used both side by side (Sebastia Salgado sported M+28/35 and R+50/60/90... William Albert Allard, William Klein, Eric Valli...

The modern era R system (not mentioning Leicaflex/SL) came much later, when Leica was not ruling the scene anymore. However, pretty much like the current SL, they did not seek to outperform the competiton on camera body features, but went all out on construction quality and lens performance.

They were perfect for people needing a whole system, liked to work in manual focus and so you could get anything from 16mm fisheye to 800mm, in many different forms from budget friendly elmars (f4) up to out of this world lenses which became legendary for good reason - Some for their character: 19&28 elmarits... Summilux 35&50 e60, Summilux 80 ---which is basically an extended noctilux-- some for performance: 60&100 apo macro - 90&180 summicrons... the modular telyt system... and the ultra high performing and very rare zooms from the late 90ies early 00ies 28-90, 35-70, 70-180 which marqued the death of the system as of 2009.

At the other hand of the same issue, R lenses which performed a bit less well than their M equivalents where easy to find second hand in the wake of the death of R system. Their size and ruggedness of construction meant they were massively adapted for other platforms such as Canon 5D. When those camera started to make movies, people fell even more in love: some of them render as nicely as cooke or panavision lenses in film... and in large format! It then became a long lasting craze making the better ones hard to find and the commoners more expensive. At least half a dozen or more companies rehouse those for pro-DOPs to buy them and it cost anywhere between 4000 to 9000euros, sometime not even including the lens itself!

@Slender thank you for this thorough information. I am sure that many others will benefit from this knowledge. 

THanks. 

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Thank you 🙏  Nope, I didn't use flash, only available light. I use flash ONLY when absolutely necessary, I resist un til the end 😂 I shoot this wedding a few weeks after using a RF for the first time, it was a shock in my modus operandi. Now, I'm faster to focus, and I understood many new RF things. Which is incredible. I'm excited to shoot the next one soon.

Leica M for weddings? Yes it's possible. But if you switching to SL, maybe is better. Who knows.

Where can we see the photos you mention ? Link ? 

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[Slender]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

Where can we see the photos you mention ? Link ? 

https://dennisberti.com/my-journal/shooting-weddings-with-leica-m10-review

[Steven]

7 minutes ago, Slender said:

https://dennisberti.com/my-journal/shooting-weddings-with-leica-m10-review

Thanks 😊 

[Steven]

You've got some excellent shots in your portfolio @Dennis. Many of them, I would have been proud if I had taken myself. Great sense of composition throughout your work, and you seem to always catch people's emotion at the right moment. 

I liked this photo very much. 

 

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[Steven]

Now @DennisDennis the real question is, would you have been able to grab that wedding photo if you only had an M ? 

 

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[Dennis]

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10 minutes ago, Steven said:

You've got some excellent shots in your portfolio @Dennis. Many of them, I would have been proud if I had taken myself. Great sense of composition throughout your work, and you seem to always catch people's emotion at the right moment. 

Thank you so much Steven, I appreciate! Yes, it's all about the authenticity of the moment. All my photos are 100% unscripted (except when I do some editorial work or portraits on demand). And yes, I'm picky to compose 🤷‍♂️ Glad you saw it, you made my day.

15 minutes ago, Steven said:

I liked this photo very much. 

One of my favorite. It was taken with a Fuji X100 v1.

40 minutes ago, Steven said:

Now @DennisDennis the real question is, would you have been able to grab that wedding photo if you only had an M ? 

Absolutely yes! This photo was very easy to predict. Pre Focus, compose, and wait for the decisive click. I told you, I'm in the way to switch to M for everything. Step by step, and I need more gear and accessories. And batteries 😂

[beewee]

3 hours ago, Slender said:

They were perfect for people needing a whole system, liked to work in manual focus and so you could get anything from 16mm fisheye to 800mm, in many different forms from budget friendly elmars (f4) up to out of this world lenses which became legendary for good reason - Some for their character: 19&28 elmarits... Summilux 35&50 e60, Summilux 80 ---which is basically an extended noctilux-- some for performance: 60&100 apo macro - 90&180 summicrons... the modular telyt system... and the ultra high performing and very rare zooms from the late 90ies early 00ies 28-90, 35-70, 70-180 which marqued the death of the system as of 2009.

I would add the 180mm f/3.4 APO Telyt for anyone who’s willing to manual focus and want a very sharp, affordable, and reasonable light weight (750g) and compact form factor. It was originally designed for the US navy in the 60s-70s for cataloging ships and submarines which meant it had very good micro contrast and resolution at infinity (and less micro contrast at close range) but is perfect for landscape photographer or anyone who don’t want to carry a big tele-zoom or spend the money on one because they don’t use that range enough. It normally sells for around $1000 for a later model (made up until 1998) but competes well with modern lenses at infinity. The fact that it was in production for over 25 years is a testament to it’s capability. The main reason it is so well priced is because it’s not a rare lens given that it’s been produced for over two decades. It’s by far the best bang for the buck of any APO Telyt by Leica.

Edited January 31, 2021 by beewee

[skimmel]

3 hours ago, Dennis said:

Thank you 🙏  Nope, I didn't use flash, only available light. I use flash ONLY when absolutely necessary, I resist un til the end 😂 I shoot this wedding a few weeks after using a RF for the first time, it was a shock in my modus operandi. Now, I'm faster to focus, and I understood many new RF things. Which is incredible. I'm excited to shoot the next one soon.

Leica M for weddings? Yes it's possible. But if you switching to SL, maybe is better. Who knows.

I'm with you on flash!  At least with M's.  For some of my event photography, I must admit that fill flash is often a great addition to an SLR.

[Dennis]

13 minutes ago, skimmel said:

I'm with you on flash!  At least with M's.  For some of my event photography, I must admit that fill flash is often a great addition to an SLR.

For my it's about truth. You can use TTL flash, SoftBox, on camera, off camera. On any situation, I feel it's like is changing reality, It just doesn't work with me and my photo ethic