Sony Wedding photographer switching systems

[Zachary Harley]

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On 1/27/2021 at 2:28 PM, SonomaBear said:

I'm also building a new kit for my SL and I am thrilled at the quality of Sigma DG DN lenses.

The 85 1.4 is a "must have" and is a real go-to for a lot of scenes/people

The 45 2.8 should be standard equipment!  Inexpensive, small, yet very good

The 24-70 2.8 is your workhorse when earning a living.  Its a better buy than Panasonic

Their new "I series" are supposedly great/small/inexpensive/well built but I haven't tried

I walk around with the 45/2.8 mounted and the others in the bag.

Enjoy... I certainly do!           PS: Their customer service s really great...

Thanks for your input. Can you tell me your experience with the 85mm 1.4 for a subject that is walking towards you while you're walking backwards. How do you usually focus this scenario with your SL? Also how is your experience with the SL focusing in low light with the 85 and 45?

[Zachary Harley]

On 1/27/2021 at 4:46 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Definitely not going to talk you out of an SL, The SL ecosystem is excellent for weddings. I've shot weddings with Sony and Leica. No way I'd go back, despite the *on paper* advantages of the Sony's. There WILL be a learning curve though. And it depends on which SL body you now have.

Your current Sony lenses are really very very good. I still have my 55 and 85 1.8's somewhere. I'm not a 35mm focal length shooter but I know the lens is great. The 55 is good enough to almost keep me considering a Sony. It pairs brilliantly with the bodies. You are going to end up with a bigger system. No way around that. Doesn't have to be vastly bigger but bigger and heavier it will be.

The Sigmas will be the closest to what you know. Similar look and drawing. A bit more *bite* than the Panasonics and Leicas. It's not really a sharpness thing. More a macro contrast difference. If you've shot a lot of Leica you might describe Sigma and Sony lenses as *gritty* in comparison. Some people describe the Sony 55mm as harsh. It can be a bit. But not always. In comparison the Panasonic and Leica versions are a bit more gentle. Colours are much easier to handle with the Leica. You'll need to adapt your post workflow but once you dial it in it's vastly better than the Sony's for skin tones.

I haven't seen anything from the new Panasonic lenses yet but I do have a bunch of them in M43 and a couple of the current L mount ones. I have no doubt that they will be very very good. They might be exactly what you're looking for plus the Sigma 85mm. The Leica L primes are the pinnacle though. Just wonderful. Very expensive and a small gain over the other L mount lenses. But if you want to best......

As for the Noctilux. Had one and sold it. Special optic but unique and extremely specialised for a huge amount of money. there are alternatives for a lot less. If you want MF have a look at the Voightlander M mount lenses and a lens adaptor. Especially some of the recent ones. Personally though, if You have an SL I'd stay native for weddings. I shot about 200 weddings with a pair of M9 bodies. Loved it but it's certainly less stress with the SL2.

Gordon

Thanks for the input! I will keep them in mind as I go through my journey with the SL. I am leaning towards the Sigma 35mm 2. I hope it doesn't render like how the Sony paired with Sigma does though. For some reason i just find it lacks soul and this is partly the reason of switching also. But like I mentioned earlier, the Sigma will be the foundation of my business and if it renders how a OSny does it with a Sigma, I'll just have to shoot more weddings to work my way up to the Leica 35. 

I totally appreciate you telling me about the learning curve. I'm going to put in the work and I'm so excited to create art!

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[Zachary Harley]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:28 AM, SiggiGun said:

As @Steven wrote, the APO-Summcrion-SL f2.0/35mm ASPH. is the lens you need! I had the chance to try all the current SL Primes.  I guess also, that the upcoming Vairo-Elmarit 28-70mm will be a good extension for Weding. And finally of course: Noctilux is a must. This lens is so different and so special, especialy for wedding. But not easy to focus.

 

Enjoy the Leica world

Thanks for the tips! Leica let's go!!! I'm pumped!

[Zachary Harley]

On 1/29/2021 at 3:03 AM, lx1713 said:

I don't shoot much weddings but I found the Q2 a beautiful match with an SL2 and the 24-90. If I were younger, the 90-280 will be in the bag. 

The SL is still used frequently but only in the studio.

Thanks for the input! The Q2 is amazing. I briefly checked it out. The thing that scares me the most is that 1 sd slot.

[Reggie]

Zachary, from what I’ve seen, the Sigma 35 f2 DG DN does not render as nicely as the 45 f2.8 or 85 f1.4. It suffers from poor LoCA and fringing in the OOF areas which leads to busy OOF and poor focus transitions. The new 65 f2 is not as bad and the 24 f3.5 is close to the smooth render of the 45 f2.8. Based on what I’ve seen so far, the 35 is actually the worst of the new I-series lenses. 
 

A number of people (including myself) are heading down the sigma route of I-series 24, 45 and Art 85. If you want a 35mm Sigma for professional work, you need to be looking at the Art series 35 f1.2. 
 

A left field alternative on the upgrade path to the SL 35 f2 is to consider the Leica TL 35 f1.4. It’s more like the Sigma I-series in terms of size and weight. It’ll mean that the SL2 operates in crop mode but 20+mp ought to be more than enough if you’re shooting wide anyway. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Reggie

[Snooopy]

@Zachary HarleyI recently started using a Lumix S5 and I'm thrilled. The camera is really robust, has great functions and an excellent sensor. I wouldn't buy a SL for what purpose? The rest of the money can be invested in lenses, the Panasonic has a movable display an the Body is smaller. I also have a Q2 as a travel camera and both complement each other great.

[FrankX]

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Zachary Harley:

The portrait is beautiful!  How do you find the focusing? Also, would you have any other experience with any other Sigma lenses with the SL? Thanks for sharing.

Focusing is quick enough for portraits (comparable to the Fuji XF56 1.2 which I also used without any problems for weddings) and usually also very precise. In most cases, I use AF-S in combination with face detection. I am not so happy with AF-C and the SL2 with this lens, as it creates a slightly wobbling picture in the viewfinder. The sharpness at f/1.4 is in my opinion outstanding (not only for the price of the lens). See the 200% crop of a portrait below.

I have currently only the Sigma 24-70 mm f/2.8 which is a stunning lens optically and also very quick regarding AF-S (much better with AF-C). Very sharp wide open for a zoom lens. However, I don't like the weight and size of the lens - and I am not a fan of zoom lenses in general. The 85 1.4 feels small and lightweight compared to 24-70 2.8, but it is of course very versatile. For a wedding, I personally need only three lenses which should be ideally at least 2.0 better 1.4: a 35 mm (70%), a 85 mm (25%) and a 24 mm (5%).

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[Simone_DF]

11 hours ago, Zachary Harley said:

Is it out already? I hope I can find some reviews on it mounted on an SL. Thanks for the tip.

Not yet. 

[Daniel81]

The Leica R lenses work spectacularly well with the SL and SL2-S  . . . . the focus peaking makes the manual focussing much easier than its ever been in my experience.

 

[Steven]

Just now, Daniel81 said:

The Leica R lenses work spectacularly well with the SL and SL2-S  . . . . the focus peaking makes the manual focussing much easier than its ever been in my experience.

 

I know very little about R lenses and how they compare to M lenses. 
ive always been under the impression than m equivalent usually performed better and were better designs. 

[Guest JMF]

Just now, Steven said:

I know very little about R lenses and how they compare to M lenses. 
ive always been under the impression than m equivalent usually performed better and were better designs. 

Actually both the 28 Elmarit R v2 and the 50 Summilux e60 R v2 are stunning performers and I prefer them on the SL 601 over their M cousins .

[Dennis]

16 hours ago, Zachary Harley said:

Leica let's go!!! I'm pumped!

If you want to switch to SL, you are going to love it. If you have budget, the 35/2 APO SL is a must. As people said here before, the best 35 out there. If much less budget, I would choose the following lenses for weddings.

 

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Easy peaky. Amazing results, perfect kit for weddings. Small and light lenses. Or, all of these plus the 35 APO SL too 🏆

In March I'll shoot a wedding with a friend, with my M10 only! I'm excited. The first time/attempt, I only had a 28 Elmarit. Now I have two 35 and a 50 🙂 In the first place, I did want to try manual focus and Rangefinder system for telling stories at weddings. And to be honest, I love it. I just need more lenses and an extra camera. I'm still finding "my path," step by step,  to switch entirely to Leica M for everything. It's a hard and tough decision, very challenging, and still thinking. But at the same time, I'm ready (I already embraced it) and super excited to work with such a tool. I enjoy it more and prefer to shoot with a Leica M. Time will tell me.
 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Dennis

[Steven]

9 hours ago, JMF said:

Actually both the 28 Elmarit R v2 and the 50 Summilux e60 R v2 are stunning performers and I prefer them on the SL 601 over their M cousins .

Just checked a few photos online, it does look like a stellar lens. 
Seems popular as a video option with the lens modified into a cine lens. 

[Slender]

R lenses are VERY popular for video/cinema. Actually used them mounted on Sony F55 and drone shots on a Galatee films production. It used to be my first leica System (R7-R8). Overbuilt and overengineered deliciousness.

[Steven]

37 minutes ago, Slender said:

R lenses are VERY popular for video/cinema. Actually used them mounted on Sony F55 and drone shots on a Galatee films production. It used to be my first leica System (R7-R8). Overbuilt and overengineered deliciousness.

What makes them better over their M equivalent ? 

I thought it was a budget issue at first. 

[lx1713]

35mm f1.4 ZM, 35mm f2 SL & 30mm f1.4 Sigma DC. I will add a few more cropped versions

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[Slender]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

What makes them better over their M equivalent ? 

I thought it was a budget issue at first. 

In short:

They are not better, just different. A wide angle M lens (or other mirrorless lenses today) will always perform better than a R (or any other wide reflex lens) because the lens could be designed with the rear element much closer to the sensitive surface (which turned out to be a real challenge for leica to adapt the sensors of the first digitals M in 2006).

As we know, the popularity of the M was always, at its core, journalists and storytellers, documentary people... who usually prefer small/simple camera&lenses with a heavy leaning for lenses ranging in the wide-semi wide departement (28-35 became the norm over the 50 of yesteryear... 21/50/90 were always strong in the M catalog but then 28s and 35s exploded in popularity. So Leica always prioritized those great performing lenses and mastered them. The RF system makes those a breeze to focus accuratly compared to reflex cameras.
Conversely it is "easy" to make stellar longer focal length lenses with a reflex system because the rays travels in a straighter manner and the user can focus them better than with a rangefinder. Hence why many of the legendary, up to modern performance lenses in the R system are in the 80mm and above. So you could say maybe that Leica mastered their wides thanks to Leica M and mastered their macros and teles thanks to Leica R system. In any case they were very expensive and difficult to acquire, but some great names in the business used both side by side (Sebastia Salgado sported M+28/35 and R+50/60/90... William Albert Allard, William Klein, Eric Valli...

The modern era R system (not mentioning Leicaflex/SL) came much later, when Leica was not ruling the scene anymore. However, pretty much like the current SL, they did not seek to outperform the competiton on camera body features, but went all out on construction quality and lens performance.

They were perfect for people needing a whole system, liked to work in manual focus and so you could get anything from 16mm fisheye to 800mm, in many different forms from budget friendly elmars (f4) up to out of this world lenses which became legendary for good reason - Some for their character: 19&28 elmarits... Summilux 35&50 e60, Summilux 80 ---which is basically an extended noctilux-- some for performance: 60&100 apo macro - 90&180 summicrons... the modular telyt system... and the ultra high performing and very rare zooms from the late 90ies early 00ies 28-90, 35-70, 70-180 which marqued the death of the system as of 2009.

At the other hand of the same issue, R lenses which performed a bit less well than their M equivalents where easy to find second hand in the wake of the death of R system. Their size and ruggedness of construction meant they were massively adapted for other platforms such as Canon 5D. When those camera started to make movies, people fell even more in love: some of them render as nicely as cooke or panavision lenses in film... and in large format! It then became a long lasting craze making the better ones hard to find and the commoners more expensive. At least half a dozen or more companies rehouse those for pro-DOPs to buy them and it cost anywhere between 4000 to 9000euros, sometime not even including the lens itself!

Edited January 31, 2021 by Slender

[lx1713]

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[skimmel]

15 hours ago, Dennis said:

In March I'll shoot a wedding with a friend, with my M10 only! I'm excited. The first time/attempt, I only had a 28 Elmarit. Now I have two 35 and a 50 🙂 In the first place, I did want to try manual focus and Rangefinder system for telling stories at weddings. And to be honest, I love it. I just need more lenses and an extra camera. I'm still finding "my path," step by step,  to switch entirely to Leica M for everything. It's a hard and tough decision, very challenging, and still thinking. But at the same time, I'm ready (I already embraced it) and super excited to work with such a tool. I enjoy it more and prefer to shoot with a Leica M. Time will tell me.
 

Checked out your first M wedding. Really great captures and images!  Did you use a flash for any of these? The photo of the 2 men in sunglasses looks like there might have been additional light used. Thanks.

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[Dennis]

7 minutes ago, skimmel said:

Checked out your first M wedding. Really great captures and images!  Did you use a flash for any of these? The photo of the 2 men in sunglasses looks like there might have been additional light used. Thanks.

Thank you 🙏  Nope, I didn't use flash, only available light. I use flash ONLY when absolutely necessary, I resist un til the end 😂 I shoot this wedding a few weeks after using a RF for the first time, it was a shock in my modus operandi. Now, I'm faster to focus, and I understood many new RF things. Which is incredible. I'm excited to shoot the next one soon.

Leica M for weddings? Yes it's possible. But if you switching to SL, maybe is better. Who knows.