You own M10M are you still considering a Q2M?

[FrozenInTime]

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Leica M is an anchor ; other cameras,  film and digital, large and smaller formats, come and go ; that's why after 30 years of M and many affairs, spending as much as the Q2M on a specialized camera, seems like it would be a short fling.

[nicci78]

@Jeff S

It is totally correct. Only distance count for perspective 

That is why Q2 wide open crop at 35mm will give you same perspective and same depth of field as Summicron-M 35mm on M10 at the same distance.

Please not that I said that Summilux-Q 28 -> Summicron 35 -> Elmarit 50 -> Elmar 75  

Because equivalent depth of field will be larger and larger. Due to maximum aperture and distance once again 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by nicci78

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[nicci78]

of course M cameras are unique thanks to compact M lenses; clear viewfinder and the best manual focusing system ever : the rangefinder

Edited November 15, 2020 by nicci78

[Herr Barnack]

On 11/12/2020 at 6:18 AM, M10Alpine said:

I'm just interested in how many who has a M-Monochrome is actually intrigued enough to pull the trigger and buy one or see the Q2M as a possible back up tool? 

Personally I cant really figure out the intended target market for the Q2M. 

I have the M10M and I actually can see that the Q2M would be a fun toy to have but no need to have, well I don't need any Leica strictly speaking because its just a hobby. Whats mainly attracting me is the ease of use and the Macro capabilities. 

Thoughts?

I am an M10 Mono user, and the Q2 Mono has my attention.  It would be a great backup to my M10M or a stand alone Monochrom when I want to simplify thing in terms of gear and travel light and fast, whether at home or halfway 'round the globe.

A photographer always needs a back up camera when traveling.  Yes, M cameras are sturdy and reliable but they are like any other mechanical or electronic device:  Unexpected things can happen.

However - I don't see myself "pulling the trigger" on a Q2 Mono buy in the near future.  I got my M10 Mono in July and my "Leica gun" is still out of ammo.  😳

Edited November 15, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Jeff S]

26 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

@Jeff S

It is totally correct. Only distance count for perspective 

That is why Q2 wide open crop at 35mm will give you same perspective and same depth of field as Summicron-M 35mm on M10 at the same distance.

Please not that I said that Summilux-Q 28 -> Summicron 35 -> Elmarit 50 -> Elmar 75  

Because equivalent depth of field will be larger and larger. Due to maximum aperture and distance once again 

 

That’s why I used 50 Summilux in my post. 😏
 

Interchangeable primes or zooms for me.  

Jeff

[M10Alpine]

3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

I am an M10 Mono user, and the Q2 Mono has my attention.  It would be a great backup to my M10M or a stand alone Monochrom when I want to simplify thing in terms of gear and travel light and fast, whether at home or halfway 'round the globe.

A photographer always needs a back up camera when traveling.  Yes, M cameras are sturdy and reliable but they are like any other mechanical or electronic device:  Unexpected things can happen.

However - I don't see myself "pulling the trigger" on a Q2 Mono buy in the near future.  I got my M10 Mono in July and my "Leica gun" is still out of ammo.  😳

I'm at  that exact point of thinking. I grabbed my Q for the first time. in 2 years and LOVED it, mostly because I was in a hotel / restaurant. Its so easy too just snap a picture. 

[nicci78]

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10 hours ago, Jeff S said:

That’s why I used 50 Summilux in my post. 😏
 

Interchangeable primes or zooms for me.  

Jeff

Of course Q2 cannot be your sole camera. That’s why I also used it alongside the CL. 
I treat Q2 as a fast standard Vario 28-75mm f/1.7-4.6 lens. 
Then CL will provide any wider and longer focal lengths. 
 

By the way Q2 and CL are made for each other : same user interface and same body size. 
CL also give you access to the same clever crop system. 
 

 

But back to the topic : Q2 Mono provide 100% black and white live view. Making it easier to shoot in B&W. Vs real life colour clear viewfinder of M10 Mono.

It also means that you can see effects of any colour filtres in real time. 

Hopefully we finally get to choose our favourite Monochrom camera: M10 Mono or Q2 Mono.    
Please just add SL2 Mono and CL Mono too. As a second or third body, the later would be a no brainer for casual B&W. 

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Of course Q2 cannot be your sole camera. That’s why I also used it alongside the CL. 
I treat Q2 as a fast standard Vario 28-75mm f/1.7-4.6 lens. 
Then CL will provide any wider and longer focal lengths. 
 

By the way Q2 and CL are made for each other : same user interface and same body size. 
CL also give you access to the same clever crop system. 
 

 

But back to the topic : Q2 Mono provide 100% black and white live view. Making it easier to shoot in B&W. Vs real life colour clear viewfinder of M10 Mono.

It also means that you can see effects of any colour filtres in real time. 

Hopefully we finally get to choose our favourite Monochrom camera: M10 Mono or Q2 Mono.    
Please just add SL2 Mono and CL Mono too. As a second or third body, the later would be a no brainer for casual B&W. 

SL2 can be set to show b/w in VF as well....and benefits from color filters in post.  Always tradeoffs.  But I agree that choices are good.

Jeff

[nicci78]

I really loved using colour filtres with my M Monochrom. It really shines with them. 

Colour mix in post, is okay. But noise can arose when you play too much with certain colour channels. After all only one quarter of pixels are either red or blue. Then only half of them are green. So you are playing with only 3 permanents colour filtres over a limited number of pixels. Interpolation is still needed = sharpness loss

However Monochrom can use any colour filter, with effect applied to 100% of pixels. No interpolation at all = purest form of Monochrom without any loss of sharpness.

[nicci78]

By the way, Q2 Mono is a missed opportunity. It should provide build-in colour and ND filtres. Such as their 19mm R lens.

R lenses are still awesome. They are still the very very best of Leica optics. Especially mechanically. Nothing alike polycarbonate SL and TL lenses.

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[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

I really loved using colour filtres with my M Monochrom. It really shines with them. 

Colour mix in post, is okay. But noise can arose when you play too much with certain colour channels. After all only one quarter of pixels are either red or blue. Then only half of them are green. So you are playing with only 3 permanents colour filtres over a limited number of pixels. Interpolation is still needed = sharpness loss

However Monochrom can use any colour filter, with effect applied to 100% of pixels. No interpolation at all = purest form of Monochrom without any loss of sharpness.

As I wrote, I own the M Monochom, M10 and SL2 (and used color filters for b/w on film cameras for 40 years), so I'm well aware of pros and cons.  My prints don't suffer either way, but using color channels clearly provides more flexibility when done well compared to glass filters.  Tradeoffs.

I prefer having a fully weather sealed SL2 system, unlike the CL or the less effective sealing on the Q2.

We could do this all day.  Always choices.  Whatever works for you....or me.

BTW, I also owned the R system.

Jeff

Edited November 16, 2020 by Jeff S

[nicci78]

I just suspect that the more pixels the sensor has. The less useful a Monochrom version would be. 
 

Let me explain. Original M Monochrom provides 36MP equivalent acuity. Instead or 18MP M9. 
It also free high ISO usage until 5,000-10,000 Instead of being stuck at 1,280-2,500. And at 1,250-2,500 you already have to convert M9 into B&W anyway. 
 

M Monochrom typ 246 still has an edge to M typ 240. But against M10. The advantages are less obvious. But having 48MP equivalent is still nice. 

But now M10-R SL2 and Q2 already provide 40-47MP acuity and very high ISO. 
We are now hitting the resolving power of certain lenses. 80-94MP theoretical equivalent acuity may be too high now.  
Not sure if non APO Summilux-Q 28mm can cope with it. Certain review like PCmag one, stated that lateral chromatic aberrations are robbing sharpness in Q2 Mono. 
So M10 Monochrom + APO-Summicron-M 50mm asph may still be the absolute best B&W camera. 
 

[M10Alpine]

14 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

I just suspect that the more pixels the sensor has. The less useful a Monochrom version would be. 
 

Let me explain. Original M Monochrom provides 36MP equivalent acuity. Instead or 18MP M9. 
It also free high ISO usage until 5,000-10,000 Instead of being stuck at 1,280-2,500. And at 1,250-2,500 you already have to convert M9 into B&W anyway. 
 

M Monochrom typ 246 still has an edge to M typ 240. But against M10. The advantages are less obvious. But having 48MP equivalent is still nice. 

But now M10-R SL2 and Q2 already provide 40-47MP acuity and very high ISO. 
We are now hitting the resolving power of certain lenses. 80-94MP theoretical equivalent acuity may be too high now.  
Not sure if non APO Summilux-Q 28mm can cope with it. Certain review like PCmag one, stated that lateral chromatic aberrations are robbing sharpness in Q2 Mono. 
So M10 Monochrom + APO-Summicron-M 50mm asph may still be the absolute best B&W camera. 
 

My question was "You own M10M are you still considering a Q2M?" 

Whats your answer to that?

[mike3996]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Hopefully we finally get to choose our favourite Monochrom camera: M10 Mono or Q2 Mono.    

Please just add SL2 Mono and CL Mono too. As a second or third body, the later would be a no brainer for casual B&W. 

Heh... I think we have a different definition of "casual B&W shooter" in mind. To buy a separate body, never mind one at Leica prices, just for B&W spells hardcore B&W affiliation.

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

By the way, Q2 Mono is a missed opportunity. It should provide build-in colour and ND filtres. Such as their 19mm R lens.

A most wonderful idea! A "casual" B&W shooter could get the hang of color filters easily this way.

 

Overall I like how Q typ 116 offered these builtin crops with pleasant preview framing. But I did see how the pixels started to "show" when going towards 7 MP crops or closer. Modern demosaicing Bayer algorithms don't bleed color much at all but you'll see small amounts of that when going into extreme crops. In this particular sense  a Q2 Monochrom makes most sense. I believe its 75mm crop is very usable indeed.

[nicci78]

75mm crop is really usable. Only issue is at high ISO. Having less pixels to binned. You can get way more visible noise than 28mm photos. 
 

Edited November 16, 2020 by nicci78

[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I just suspect that the more pixels the sensor has. The less useful a Monochrom version would be. 
 

Let me explain. Original M Monochrom provides 36MP equivalent acuity. Instead or 18MP M9. 
It also free high ISO usage until 5,000-10,000 Instead of being stuck at 1,280-2,500. And at 1,250-2,500 you already have to convert M9 into B&W anyway. 
 

M Monochrom typ 246 still has an edge to M typ 240. But against M10. The advantages are less obvious. But having 48MP equivalent is still nice. 

But now M10-R SL2 and Q2 already provide 40-47MP acuity and very high ISO. 
We are now hitting the resolving power of certain lenses. 80-94MP theoretical equivalent acuity may be too high now.  
Not sure if non APO Summilux-Q 28mm can cope with it. Certain review like PCmag one, stated that lateral chromatic aberrations are robbing sharpness in Q2 Mono. 
So M10 Monochrom + APO-Summicron-M 50mm asph may still be the absolute best B&W camera. 
 

That’s obvious if high ISO is the reason for a Monochrom.  I use a Monochrom for the benefit of an all b/w shooting and workflow experience, knowing that I cannot shoot color and forcing me to see differently.  ASA 400 was adequate in my film days; the original Monochrom is already more than capable for my high ISO needs. Super clean night shots rarely appeal to me anyway.  

Jeff

[LeicaS2]

Answering the question, yes I own an M10M and no I am not considering a Q2M.

I think the Q is a great camera, but already owning an M which has superior ISO I would always reach for the camera with the best performance. If I wanted to shoot B&W and had both cameras, I would only pickup the Q M if I was handing it to someone else who couldn’t use an RF.  I didn’t have an M, much less an M10M, I would be attracted to the QM.

[SrMi]

I own M10M and Q2M. I enjoy using monochrome cameras. M10M and Q2M are sufficiently different so that they are complementary.
The answers are similar to the question, "You own an M10R; are you still considering Q2?" 

[SJH]

For me upgrading to an M10R from an M10 squeezed out the 'colour' Q2 as I have an SL2, I also recently bought the M10M so the Q2M didn't really make any sense for me even though I knew it was coming when I ordered the M10M. Personally I found the Q2 was too big to actually be 'pocketable' really and therefore I just took my SL2 with an SL APO Summicron. I figured if I had to bring the Q2 carried cross body or in a bag I might was well just bring my SL2 with an SL or M lens for that work. On balance I also found that I just preferred the M's to Q's in any event and I bought a GRIII  just to put in my pocket when the need arose and it's also pretty good with B&W JPEG's.

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[didier]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:55 AM, nicci78 said:

So M10 Monochrom + APO-Summicron-M 50mm asph may still be the absolute best B&W camera. 

I think so as well 😊