Sensor Corrosion Analysis and Fix [Merged]

[dummilux]

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Kolari is returning my M9-P untouched because according to them the P models use a different glue than the standard models.

The first message I received:

“We hope all is well. We're reaching out because we received your camera but unfortunately, we do not have support for the Leica M9-P. At the moment, we are only able to convert the Leica M9. Your camera is in its original state and will be sent back to you. Let us know if you have any questions or concerns.“

I asked them why and received this response:

 

“The glue that they use on the cover glass for the M9-P and M Monochrome is a lot more difficult to remove without potentially damaging the camera. For this reason, we are not able to safely repair the M9-P or the M Monochrome.”

 

Isn’t the M9-P the same camera as the M9? I mean apart from the paint job and rear display.

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by dummilux

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[Jadon Rosado]

22 minutes ago, dummilux said:

Kolari is returning my M9-P untouched because according to them the P models use a different glue than the standard models.

The first message I received:

“We hope all is well. We're reaching out because we received your camera but unfortunately, we do not have support for the Leica M9-P. At the moment, we are only able to convert the Leica M9. Your camera is in its original state and will be sent back to you. Let us know if you have any questions or concerns.“

I asked them why and received this response:

 

“The glue that they use on the cover glass for the M9-P and M Monochrome is a lot more difficult to remove without potentially damaging the camera. For this reason, we are not able to safely repair the M9-P or the M Monochrome.”

 

Isn’t the M9-P the same camera as the M9? I mean apart from the paint job and rear display.

 

 

 

Interesting, 

Leica uses a really thick epoxy to attach the cover glass to the sensors, I use hot air and a blade to remove them and it works like a charm. Some are a bit tougher than others but it eventually comes off...

I personally haven’t had the M9p on my bench for the conversion yet but I can’t see how the sensor in that is any different than the original, same for the monochrome. In my experience in the camera repair industry I’ve found that larger companies work like assembly lines and the second there’s something that interferes with the projected turn around time (ie. epoxy, rusted parts, component level trouble shooting) they usually send it back as “unrepairable” or “requires factory service” 

I encourage you to send it over to me to take a look, I’m willing to bet that the epoxy just needs to be cut off.

best,

Jadon 

[dummilux]

3 minutes ago, Jadon Rosado said:

Interesting, 

Leica uses a really thick epoxy to attach the cover glass to the sensors, I use hot air and a blade to remove them and it works like a charm. Some are a bit tougher than others but it eventually comes off...

I personally haven’t had the M9p on my bench for the conversion yet but I can’t see how the sensor in that is any different than the original, same for the monochrome. In my experience in the camera repair industry I’ve found that larger companies work like assembly lines and the second there’s something that interferes with the projected turn around time (ie. epoxy, rusted parts, component level trouble shooting) they usually send it back as “unrepairable” or “requires factory service” 

I encourage you to send it over to me to take a look, I’m willing to bet that the epoxy just needs to be cut off.

best,

Jadon 

I’m about to PM you.

[codocee]

Kolari states:

At the moment, we are only able to convert the Leica M9. 

I’m holding out hope for the future. I’ll keep checking here for a monochrome success story.

C’mon Kolari!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dummilux]

After giving it some thought, I decided to contact Leica and they let me know that they still have a couple of sensors left. Their recommendation was to ship my camera ASAP since it's first come first serve for these last pieces. So, I bit the bullet and sent my M9-P to New Jersey.

I requested that they send my old sensor back thinking maybe Jadon could use it for some tests but this was their response:

"Good afternoon, I sincerely apologize, the factory requires we send them back to them.

Kind regards"

So, it seems that they're doing the same thing. Refurbishing sensors as opposed to replacing. I mean, why else would they need the old ones back?

[dllewellyn]

No - they are not refurbing.  They are actually replacing the sensor.  Leica doesn't know how to change the epoxied coverglass/ICF.  I wonder if they would replace the sensor if you send the camera to them with the sensor removed?  It is a shame because all those sensors they have been removing are probably getting destroyed when they would be useful for R&D and shops that can replace the coverglass.

Back when I started converting Nikon D800 cameras to monochrome, Nikon had stopped selling parts so I couldn't buy sensors when I broke them while trying to figure out the conversion process.  So I would buy a new D800, try, and if the sensor was killed, I would send the camera to Nikon without the sensor for repair.  Each repair was costing me $2,000.  Nikon's policy was that they would repair the camera to factory stock so I would get the camera back with a new sensor installed.  Out of the first 20 D800 monochrome conversion attempts, 4 were successful .  R&D can be expensive!

Edited November 13, 2020 by dllewellyn

[kristyansen]

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Am 13.11.2020 um 20:52 schrieb dllewellyn:

No - they are not refurbing.  They are actually replacing the sensor.  Leica doesn't know how to change the epoxied coverglass/ICF.  I wonder if they would replace the sensor if you send the camera to them with the sensor removed?  It is a shame because all those sensors they have been removing are probably getting destroyed when they would be useful for R&D and shops that can replace the coverglass.

Back when I started converting Nikon D800 cameras to monochrome, Nikon had stopped selling parts so I couldn't buy sensors when I broke them while trying to figure out the conversion process.  So I would buy a new D800, try, and if the sensor was killed, I would send the camera to Nikon without the sensor for repair.  Each repair was costing me $2,000.  Nikon's policy was that they would repair the camera to factory stock so I would get the camera back with a new sensor installed.  Out of the first 20 D800 monochrome conversion attempts, 4 were successful .  R&D can be expensive!

The condition for the M9 sensor to be replaced by Leica is to have confirmed sensor corrosion. Without sensor, this would not be possible. 

[BrianS]

On my two cameras sent for sensor replacement: Leica replaced the Sensor and Board that the sensor is on. The Sensor CCD ID is different from the original.

 

Somewhere- there is a stack of old sensors and boards. To valuable to just throw them out.

[jaapv]

What is the value of a 20 year old design CCD sensor with corrosion?

[jaapv]

On 11/13/2020 at 8:20 PM, dummilux said:

I mean, why else would they need the old ones back?

Legal requirements to dispose environmentally safe.  See the crossed-out bin on the bottom of your camera.

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

What is the value of a 20 year old design CCD sensor with corrosion?

To the two or three changing the cover glass and converting to mono? A couple of hundred each.

[BrianS]

To someone using a KAF-18500 in a piece of scientific equipment: a good bit. It is possible to fix the cover glass. I've had to purchase obsolete parts before.

[dot-me-not]

This has been a fascinating thread.

[Raymondl]

5 hours ago, dot-me-not said:

This has been a fascinating thread.

I pretty much joined this forum because of this thread 🤪

[liu2k3L]

On 11/14/2020 at 3:20 AM, dummilux said:

After giving it some thought, I decided to contact Leica and they let me know that they still have a couple of sensors left. Their recommendation was to ship my camera ASAP since it's first come first serve for these last pieces. So, I bit the bullet and sent my M9-P to New Jersey.

I requested that they send my old sensor back thinking maybe Jadon could use it for some tests but this was their response:

"Good afternoon, I sincerely apologize, the factory requires we send them back to them.

Kind regards"

So, it seems that they're doing the same thing. Refurbishing sensors as opposed to replacing. I mean, why else would they need the old ones back?

I am interested to know if you contacted Leica in US. Because when I contacted Leica Germany about my corroded M9, they replied that  there was no sensor left on stock. So I've already sent mine to Kolari vision. Too bad. I would choose to change the whole CCD rather than only the cover glass if possible.

[dummilux]

53 minutes ago, liu2k3L said:

I am interested to know if you contacted Leica in US. Because when I contacted Leica Germany about my corroded M9, they replied that  there was no sensor left on stock. So I've already sent mine to Kolari vision. Too bad. I would choose to change the whole CCD rather than only the cover glass if possible.

I contacted Leica in the US. Here is her info:

Stacey McHenry
Manager of Customer Care

Leica Camera Inc. | 1 Pearl Court Unit A | Allendale, NJ 07401 | USA

T +1 800 222 0118 | Direct Line +1 201 962 9922 | F +1 201 995 1984

stacey.mchenry@leicacamerausa.com

[tobey bilek]

Without a Leica fix, best solution is trade in and you get a little money.   

[dummilux]

24 minutes ago, tobey bilek said:

Without a Leica fix, best solution is trade in and you get a little money.   

But then you won’t have an M9 anymore. Lol.

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Hallo,

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[kristyansen]

Dear All, any other test photos and experiences to post here? That would be great! 

[P1505]

Yeah I’d like to see images from a Kolari fixed M9. Mine will go off in the new year after I’ve bought the M10.