This is why I bought an M10R

[Chaemono]

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When I want maximum IQ, I try to balance the ISO wheel with my left thumb between ISO 100 and 200 as I shoot.

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[mike3996]

Are M10R and M10P equally sensitive at ISO 200? With some cameras the excitement of having ISO 100 vanishes because it's as sensitive as my MP240 at ISO 200.

[Fedro]

not sure if the resolution does the camera justice, but I don't think I was amazed by the level of detail/textures 

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[scott kirkpatrick]

I've had an M10-R shot printed on a modern Indigo offset press at 300 dpi, 100% resolution, and the detail is quite awesome.  The press folks want to do a whole series (to show off their press quality).  Cropped, the pictures come out at about 60 by 40 cm.

[Alexandre Petrescu]

On 8/31/2020 at 1:01 PM, jaapv said:

Where would you have Leica find the space, Scott?

 

 

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for info there is this other picture of inner M10 (not -R) as well, from https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M10/Designed-and-made-in-Germany by ©Gentlemen’s Journal, photographer: David Marquez.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Alexandre Petrescu

[jplomley]

3 hours ago, Alexandre Petrescu said:

for info there is this other picture of inner M10 (not -R) as well, from https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M10/Designed-and-made-in-Germany by ©Gentlemen’s Journal, photographer: David Marquez.

 

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What could possibly go wrong 😂

[mike3996]

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

The guy says that with the righ res sensor its really hard to get a sharp photo. That the "technique" has to be greater than with the 24mp M to nail focus. He suggests shooting at high shutter speeds to not get blurry shot. 

That's a nonissue really, a pixel peeper's fallacy.

The truth is that yes, more megapixels means that you have to be more careful if you want to MAXIMIZE the quality. But it is also true that most print sizes and web use "cap out" at 8-16 megapixels of resolution. Any more than that and it's simply not visible in the end result.

What this means in other words, pixel peeping everything at 100%, 200% instead of fitting the image to your screen or a predetermined size, you are, as a peeper, the one who demands more accuracy from the increased megapixels. The sanity-preserving option is to always keep in mind how you aren't printing or presenting or even viewing the shots at 100% magnification.

------

Let's say you're happy with a sensor that has a certain number of  pixels. You're happy with the images printed, you're happy when pixel-peeping. You're happy that whatever technique you have, you get good and satisfying results.

Now an improved camera comes about and its sensor has 25% more pixels. If you pixel peep images from both camera at 100% or 200% or whatever, you are in fact demanding 25% more accuracy from your technique.  But this may not be what you want or need. If the new sensor has 25% more pixels you should inspect those images at 80% magnification instead of 100% and you would have equivalent results if you kept your lenses and technique the same.

Edited October 5, 2020 by mike3996

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Steven:

Just watched the M10R DPReview review on YouTube. 

The guy says that with the righ res sensor its really hard to get a sharp photo. That the "technique" has to be greater than with the 24mp M to nail focus. He suggests shooting at high shutter speeds to not get blurry shot. 

Is that really an issue with the 40MP senso ? 

I have not made this experience with the M10-r so far. Of course you can zoom in to a higher level and can detect small unsharpness easier when having higher resolution.

[tom0511]

I tried to resist but did the upgrade. Is it worth it? I believe the M10 is a very good camera. The M10r might offer a little more DR, and more room to crop, and a more silent shutter, but all this comes at a high price. It is luxury, but fun. I think with a good lens it is near medium format quality.

 

 

[Guest Nowhereman]

^ "Near medium format quality" is not what I want. I don't recall if I wrote the following in this thread or another one: in the old Photo Net Leica forum, people often wrote that a 35mm Tri-X image should not, or could not, be printed larger than 8x10 or 11x14 — that you should shoot medium format if you wanted larger prints. Then, in 2006, I saw the Daido Moriyama retrospective exhibition at the Gallery of New South Wales: 150x100 cm (60 x 40 inch) prints from 35mm Tri-X negatives: printed on an wide format inkjet printer, they were stunning.

That is to say, I prefer the 35 mm aesthetic and don't want greater resolution that my M10 provides. I also prefer to have 24 MB rather than 40 MB files, so that I don't have to shoot at higher shutter speeds to keep definition. As for the M10R having greater dynamic range than the M10, some people feel that the M10 has slightly more dynamic range, as shown in the graphs on the photonstophotos.net charts, especially the Photographic Dynamic Range Shadow Improvement Charts. 
____________________
Frog Leaping photobook

[budjames]

Bad technique is not fixed by more MPx. I have not noticed any issues shooting my M10-R, just amazing details and textures. Love it!

Regards,

Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Fgama]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:34 AM, 250swb said:

No it wasn't rude, it was 'amazed'.

Promoting the spending of thousands of dollars on a new camera based on a bit more headroom drops my jaw, if you don't see the irony when you are a beta tester for Leica then there is no hope for anybody listening to you. Sure some people will follow the scent, but the M10R is even more temporary and even more pointless for the majority of photographers than most of Leica's offerings in recent times. If this was a specialist discussion about theatre photography or similar I could imagine the extra headroom of an M10R may be a vital element, but for 99% of Leica photographers on this forum it won't make any difference at all other than the bank balance, even if they pixel peep. Thousands of dollars for that? It is symptomatic across the industry that the old camera is now not fit for purpose because hey, you may just meet those situations you never even considered or complained about before.

Big revolutions have gone on continually in photography for near on 180 years and only in recent times has the previous work of photographers been cast in doubt, largely driven by marketing and the next best sensor. Now is the age when a tiny improvement costs thousands and appeals to people who want to tick the box to say they are riding the crest of the wave. Do they make better photographs, no, they make the same photograph time after time, every Summer holiday and every Christmas. That is the sink hole of new cameras unless they offer a proper step change, and that is the hole reviewers dig for their fans.

I was enjoying the sharing by Jono and others here on M10R and reading all in from a 3rd party point clearly shows your rudeness!! You’re implying that readers or ‘fans’ are easily swayed or influenced into buying expensive camera just by reading OP is rather offensive - we are not idiots and we can make our own decision on how we want to spend our money. I would continue reading this thread and hopefully doesn’t read any of your comments. Unbelievable!

[bags27]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:54 PM, Fedro said:

not sure if the resolution does the camera justice, but I don't think I was amazed by the level of detail/textures 

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Lovely, but I agree about the detail. I get noticeably more detail from my touristy Fuji GSW iii 690, scanned with a CL and a Sigma 70 macro. Compare the detail across the bay. Maybe it was your lens?

[Fedro]

3 hours ago, bags27 said:

Lovely, but I agree about the detail. I get noticeably more detail from my touristy Fuji GSW iii 690, scanned with a CL and a Sigma 70 macro. Compare the detail across the bay. Maybe it was your lens?

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HI Ken

I agree that this is no match, though these are different tools. Also I believe I shot the picture with a relatively fast aperture (so with the background blown out).

The first one was shot with the Noctilux at f4.8.

I was more surprised by the lack of details in the background on the second picture (summicron 28 at f 6.8) although there is noticeable flare.

I do love the textures on the M10R though, especially in the first picture (I am one of those who loves the Noctilux also stopped down)

Fedro

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Fedro said:

I was more surprised by the lack of details in the background on the second picture (summicron 28 at f 6.8) although there is noticeable flare.

To my eye, little in that shot seems sharp. Could be downsizing, focusing point, processing, shutter speed or a slight tug perhaps?  Whatever the reason, your results don't mirror my own.     

Just one example, chosen in particular just to annoy Bags. Shot with the WATE 16mm at a claimed f4 (though I suspect f5.6) 1/350" ISO 100 and focused near field on the rocks.  Safe to assume that some of softness in the background is down to focus. And again, 16mm with a background hundreds of feet away.  Not sure how much more one could expect from a FF camera.

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Crop:

 

 

[250swb]

6 hours ago, Fgama said:

I was enjoying the sharing by Jono and others here on M10R and reading all in from a 3rd party point clearly shows your rudeness!! You’re implying that readers or ‘fans’ are easily swayed or influenced into buying expensive camera just by reading OP is rather offensive - we are not idiots and we can make our own decision on how we want to spend our money. I would continue reading this thread and hopefully doesn’t read any of your comments. Unbelievable!

Oh I am sorry to have traumatised you. The M10R image thread backs up what I have said. It is true there are some very fine images, but for most images they are simply displaying the camera and not the photographer.

To all, make an effort, if you want to crow about how game changing the M10R is at least show it and not the same sunsets, the same lakes, the same boats bobbing, the same flowers. It really is like most people have gone out and re-photographed everything they have done before.

If they'd have stuck with their previous camera they may by now be thinking the need something else to photograph and introduced some creativity into their photography. But it is the same every time a new camera is released, everything is photographed all over again because of the better 'image quality' meaning less noise etc and not an actual better photograph.

Edited October 8, 2020 by 250swb

[bherman01545]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:12 PM, jonoslack said:

Jono ask me to add this. Here are some further explanations:

I’m afraid I haven’t spelt out what I’m getting at on this post. The point is that you can shoot the M10-R in brighter light conditions than the M10, M or M9. Without using ND filters. 
This wouldn’t matter to everyone, but I often want to shoot with the lens wide open in very bright high contrast situations (generally people rather than boats!). 

The base ISO of the M10-R already gives you 1 stop advantage (100 vs M10’s 200). In addition to this you can recover a lot more information than you can with the previous M cameras. 

Thanks to Dr No for pointing this out so clearly in post #78
 

I've been trying to think of a simple way of describing it, and here it is

So This boat was shot with the 50 'lux at f1.4, and at 100 ISO at 1/4000th second

 

 

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This is the developed image with 2.35 stops of under exposure

 

and here they are side by side 

 

Here you are Scott:

All the best

Jono;

Do you recall what type of metering was used for the overexposed photo of the boat? Was it center-weighted or Multi Field?

Perhaps you would have gotten a better exposure with Spot Metering? With that said, it is probably easier shooting with the metering mode set for the majority of your shots and fixing it in post?

Just a thought?

-Brad

 

On 8/21/2020 at 12:12 PM, jonoslack said:

 

 

 

[Kwesi]

4 minutes ago, bherman01545 said:

 

 

I love Jono's photographs but this is a god awful example of what a good sensor can achieve. None of the images shown actually represent the image as seen.

I understand the spirit of exuberance in which it was shown and I respect and applaud that .

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jonoslack]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:58 PM, 250swb said:

Oh I am sorry to have traumatised you. The M10R image thread backs up what I have said. It is true there are some very fine images, but for most images they are simply displaying the camera and not the photographer.

To all, make an effort, if you want to crow about how game changing the M10R is at least show it and not the same sunsets, the same lakes, the same boats bobbing, the same flowers. It really is like most people have gone out and re-photographed everything they have done before.

If they'd have stuck with their previous camera they may by now be thinking the need something else to photograph and introduced some creativity into their photography. But it is the same every time a new camera is released, everything is photographed all over again because of the better 'image quality' meaning less noise etc and not an actual better photograph.

I quite agree with this - and although testing a new camera offers me the opportunity of going back and taking the same pictures - which actually does have some kind of artistic validity, but perhaps it's a soft option.

Generally speaking it's been years since a new digital camera has offered enough benefits to make or break a photograph. It might be that buying a new camera stimulates the creative juices, but these days it's very unlikely to produce a better quality image. 

But what you really have taught me is that if I mostly try to publicly offer a reasonably objective view of a camera / lens (which I do), then I lose the right to make a subjective judgement (which this certainly was). 

[bags27]

2 hours ago, jonoslack said:

I quite agree with this - and although testing a new camera offers me the opportunity of going back and taking the same pictures - which actually does have some kind of artistic validity, but perhaps it's a soft option.

Generally speaking it's been years since a new digital camera has offered enough benefits to make or break a photograph. It might be that buying a new camera stimulates the creative juices, but these days it's very unlikely to produce a better quality image. 

But what you really have taught me is that if I mostly try to publicly offer a reasonably objective view of a camera / lens (which I do), then I lose the right to make a subjective judgement (which this certainly was). 

Can I give you a "thumbs up" for your first two paragraphs and a "thumbs down" for the last one? I agree fully that new equipment allows one to go back to old subjects and look anew--nothing much different than Monet's haystacks, etc. 

But I doubt anyone here (well, almost anyone here) doesn't value your subjective, as well as your objective, opinions. And before that leads us to a consideration of what is objectivity and the Romantic inversion of the subject and object, maybe we can just ask you to please keep posting your thoughts, however you consider them? 🙂