Hoping that CL2 = mini SL2

[nicci78]

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I don’t care about new Fuji. I just want a CL2. 
 

If I were ever interested into this X-Trans sensor non sense I would have bought one long ago. 

CL is awesome and for me it worths the extra money over Fujifilm X series. 

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jaapv]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:10 PM, Gregm61 said:

I've been reading up on the just announced Fuji XE-4, interestingly to me at least, something very close to what a CL currently is in the Leica system.

When many users here are looking for an updated CL2 with IBIS, here's a new Fuji, made smaller with the rangefinder-styled body and no IBIS. I have no experience with the Fuji menu/submenu systems and how they work ergonomically, but the XE4 combination, couple with some of their great-looking and very well-priced primes, like the 14 or 16mm f2.8's, 23 or 35mm f2's and either the 50mm f2 or 56mm f1.2 that is a very compelling-looking outfit.

I really dislike Fuji colours - too much work in postprocessing to get them right (i.e. to my taste). A real deal breaker.

[lct]

+1. Too much orange and cyan saturation i feel and Fuji sensor stacks are too thick to avoid soft corners with M wides. Was my experience with Fuji X-E2 at least. 

[Mr.Prime]

You can look down our noses at Fuji, but I suspect they are selling a lot more cameras than Leica and making plenty of photographers happy enough without draining their wallets quite as much. But, let’s see what can be done with a CL2.

[Gregm61]

I'm way too invested in the CL system with the camera, 6 native prime/zoom lenses, two SF60's and the radio remote, to be anyone interested in actually buying anything Fuji.

I just never thought I'd see anyone building something similar in terms of smallness in size, especially with no IBIS the way the vast majority seem to think, after years of brainwashing by all the major best-selling brands, that any kind of photography is impossible without it.

[nicci78]

Fujifilm only problem is its stubbornness to keep using X-Trans sensor. Even if they is no advantage at all to do so. 
 

Typical bayer filter can do better. 
 

With X-Trans you have to rely on the ever more expensive CaptureOne to get pleasant post processing. 
You can also trust Adobe AI sensei algorithms to guess which colour is the pixels. 
 

It is just crazy to see the amount of work imaging processor and editing software have to pull out. Just for guessing the missing colour. 
 

Just a reminder : X-Trans has more green pixels and less red & blue pixels than typical Bayer sensor. 
The real problem is that there are already plenty of green (50%) in the traditional way.
Why on earth would I trade the fewer reds and blues for plentiful greens ??? Crazy thinking  

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by nicci78

[nicci78]

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It’s the problem of Japanese engineers stubbornness. 
They think that their solution can eventually come first. Even if everything proves them wrong. 
 

That’s why we still got X-Trans sensor and Depth of defocus AF system. 
 

That’s why Fujifilm and Panasonic will never dominate the market. They are not ready to listen to customers and to acknowledge that they are wrong. 

[nicci78]

By the way Leica is poised to announce a brand new sensor tech. 
It is codeveloped with HuaWei. And already used with success in their smartphones. 
 

RYYB sensor is a mix between CYYM and RGGB sensors. 
Cyan yellow Magenta filters are best for light gathering. But difficult for post processing. 
Red Green Blue filters are easy to work with. But lose a lot of light. 
Red Yellow Blue will try to solve the problem. With 40% more light gathering. 
 

Hope it will come with CL2 and that it will be mature enough.  
 

https://camerajabber.com/leica-cameras-may-use-ryyb-sensor-technology/

Edited February 1, 2021 by nicci78

[jaapv]

Interesting...

[jaapv]

9 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

You can look down our noses at Fuji, but I suspect they are selling a lot more cameras than Leica and making plenty of photographers happy enough without draining their wallets quite as much. But, let’s see what can be done with a CL2.

What has the number of cameras sold to do with my taste in colours and my Photoshop laziness?

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

With X-Trans you have to rely on the ever more expensive CaptureOne to get pleasant post processing. 

Not true - Adobe added excellent colour grading recently.

[cirke]

I have both Lightroom and Capture one , they are making the same job 

[Mr.Prime]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

What has the number of cameras sold to do with my taste in colours and my Photoshop laziness?

there’s no connection with your laziness 🤣

[garygraphy]

2 hours ago, cirke said:

I have both Lightroom and Capture one , they are making the same job 

I disagree.. its very muddy output on LR but a lot cleaner on C1. I have a lot of recent frustration on the new X100V in terms of getting strong details. I will sell it and look on with hope on the CL2.

[cirke]

1 hour ago, garygraphy said:

I disagree.. its very muddy output on LR but a lot cleaner on C1. I have a lot of recent frustration on the new X100V in terms of getting strong details. I will sell it and look on with hope on the CL2.

For me it’s the same with any camera , canon ,  Sony,  Leica ... same results but different way to do it 

[Jeff S]

10 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Fujifilm only problem is its stubbornness to keep using X-Trans sensor. Even if they is no advantage at all to do so. 
 

Typical bayer filter can do better. 
 

With X-Trans you have to rely on the ever more expensive CaptureOne to get pleasant post processing. 
You can also trust Adobe AI sensei algorithms to guess which colour is the pixels. 
 

It is just crazy to see the amount of work imaging processor and editing software have to pull out. Just for guessing the missing colour. 
 

Just a reminder : X-Trans has more green pixels and less red & blue pixels than typical Bayer sensor. 
The real problem is that there are already plenty of green (50%) in the traditional way.
Why on earth would I trade the fewer reds and blues for plentiful greens ??? Crazy thinking  

 

Interesting that Fuji chooses Bayer filter for its GFX line.

Jeff

[SoarFM]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:10 PM, Gregm61 said:

I've been reading up on the just announced Fuji XE-4, interestingly to me at least, something very close to what a CL currently is in the Leica system.

When many users here are looking for an updated CL2 with IBIS, here's a new Fuji, made smaller with the rangefinder-styled body and no IBIS. I have no experience with the Fuji menu/submenu systems and how they work ergonomically, but the XE4 combination, couple with some of their great-looking and very well-priced primes, like the 14 or 16mm f2.8's, 23 or 35mm f2's and either the 50mm f2 or 56mm f1.2 that is a very compelling-looking outfit.

It had occurred to me that Fuji just put out a less expensive CL that has good small primes. However the Fuji APS zooms are either large or big and lacking. And the Fuji’s don’t play well with Leica M lenses (if you’re trying to accommodate those, and not all of us are..). While I absolutely hate the Sony menu system on my A6500, which has the same sensor as the CL, but not the color science, I also found the Fuji menu system barely OK, the Q menus are needless. Seems the Fuji claim to fame is all the presets for jpeg shooting (why would I even want to do that??) and the X-trans sensor too often mucks up some details—which it shouldn’t.

The news of the XE-4 makes me think that another manufacturer identifying the market  for a trim APS camera and smaller lenses bodes well for the future of CL fans that don’t want to be orphaned by Leica.

Edited February 1, 2021 by SoarFM

[LocalHero1953]

13 hours ago, nicci78 said:

It’s the problem of Japanese engineers stubbornness. 
They think that their solution can eventually come first. Even if everything proves them wrong.

Sounds a bit like German engineers and rangefinders.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[robgo2]

16 hours ago, nicci78 said:

By the way Leica is poised to announce a brand new sensor tech. 
It is codeveloped with HuaWei. And already used with success in their smartphones. 
 

RYYB sensor is a mix between CYYM and RGGB sensors. 
Cyan yellow Magenta filters are best for light gathering. But difficult for post processing. 
Red Green Blue filters are easy to work with. But lose a lot of light. 
Red Yellow Blue will try to solve the problem. With 40% more light gathering. 
 

Hope it will come with CL2 and that it will be mature enough.  
 

https://camerajabber.com/leica-cameras-may-use-ryyb-sensor-technology/

This sensor design may or may not be superior to standard bayer filters, but I have concerns about raw conversion software manufacturers being keen on developing proper demosaicing algorithms. 

[jaapv]

Well, Leica being  hand in glove with Adobe might help.