Lightroom : Workflow using both desktop and mobile versions

[didier]

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Dear all

I still use LR 6.xx on my iMac.

I like to store all my pictures locally on personal hard drives with my personal way of renaming and storing. I don’t want to lose this feature.
Since I upgraded my cameras (M10M and SL), I happen, when on the go, to download via Fotos some jpgs to send quick pictures. And later on I process all my pictures at home on my iMac. It works but I somewhat do a few things twice  

Can anyone confirm I could use the Lightroom iPad version to download DNGs, process them and later on get them easily back from the cloud to the desktop in a LR classic catalogue ? Thus I would avoid processing some pictures twice.

I would use the cloud features only as a temporary storage/processing workflow before I get everything back on my desktop computer.
Thanks for your input and advice !

 

Didier

[evikne]

From LR Classic you can drag photos to a synced collection, or drag them to the All Synced Photographs folder without having them in any particiular collection. LR Classic doesn't upload original DNG files, only smart previews. But these will appear on your mobile devices where you can edit them and share them. The edits will be synced back to the original files in LR Classic on your desktop computer.

I am not sure this works with LR 6 however, I think you need the new Creative Cloud subscription. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by evikne

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[zeitz]

I am waiting for Apple to deliver an iPad Pro to me.  Didier's workflow is exactly the workflow I want to use, expect I use ACR/Photoshop CC instead of Lightroom stand-alone.

The Creative Cloud app tantalizingly has an icon for Cloud Activity/Cloud Storage/File Syncing, which I assume applies to all the Adobe graphics applications, not just the photo apps.  Under Tools (Gear Icon) the Folder Location is easily changed.  The question of where the original raw file is actually stored is interesting along with the question of how the synchronization is achieved.  Is the .xmp sidecar adequate for raw files syncing?  How are .jpg files synchronized?  Can mobile devices even produce .psd or .tif files with layers intact?  Can edited files be put into the Creative Cloud without automatically synchronizing?

Surely Adobe has a tutorial somewhere in its knowledge base.

[hirohhhh]

I was using a combination of Lr Classic (desktop) and Lr cloud apps (iPad & iPhone) for a year. I though this was the ultimate workflow - I'd import my photos directly into Lr Classic and they'll sync across all devices within minutes. Or, I'd import them on the iPad and I'd find them in my Lr Classic when I get home.

I was wrong, and I found it a year later.

Lr Classic syncs only the smart previews, not the original files. All DNGs sitting on my computer was on my computer only and not on the Creative Cloud. I use Backblaze as a backup solution, so I wouldn't lose them anyway if something went wrong, but I was so disappointed to learn this (a year later!) and how easily someone could lose all the precious files. Because everything seemed to work as a charm! Green checkmark was always there, with the label "Synced and Backed up". I had 200GB (of apparently smart previews only) uploaded on CC and just now I noticed that my whole library is 3x larger. Nothing indicated that only smart previews were synced and backed up and not the whole library.

Today, I deleted all data (smart previews) from the CC, downgraded storage from 1TB to 20GB and I switched back to using Lr Classic only on my desktop.

I'll miss working on my photos on iPad Pro while I'm on the go, but I can live with that.

I'm not that old grumpy man that's against everything new, I'm quite tech savvy and I like to try new things, but the way Adobe implement it, was always against my logic. Not that I didn't give it a try, many times (I had several attempts before I fully switched to cloud). I also understand the technical barriers that prevents old folder structure system working alongside modern flat cloud based structure, but nevertheless, I can't make it work for me.

I'd love to switch fully on the new system if I can use keywords, tethering and whats not that I'm heavily using on Lr Classic. Maybe it's still too early to fully switch to Lr cloud apps. Maybe there will be a satisfying solution in a couple years. Or maybe (or certainly) Adobe will discontinue Classic and leave us with no other option, but switch to the cloud.

[zeitz]

Thanks for the information.  I just got an iPad Pro.  I have only used Photoshop across platforms.  My overall observation is that the iPad Pro is a great piece of hardware that is severely handicapped by a cell phone operating system.  Hopefully the system will evolve rapidly.

[hirohhhh]

26 minutes ago, zeitz said:

Thanks for the information.  I just got an iPad Pro.  I have only used Photoshop across platforms.  My overall observation is that the iPad Pro is a great piece of hardware that is severely handicapped by a cell phone operating system.  Hopefully the system will evolve rapidly.

Certainly they will. I installed iPadOS 14 Beta and this is nothing like the iOS we had two years ago. This already looks and feel like a modern desktop os.

[LocalHero1953]

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I used Lightroom CC (non-Classic) to manage and edit all my DNGs on the cloud for several years. Unlike the OP I didn't retain any locally. I was willing to pay for 2TB of storage for the benefits of security (no separate backup subscription) and convenience of access and distribution: I could use Lightroom CC, or Lightroom CC Mobile on my phone to upload and edit images anywhere. I don't have an ipad, but the Lightroom CC Mobile iOS version would work the same way. 

Several months back I decided to go into reverse, and I now have all my DNG images back on my desktop, backed up with Backblaze, all edited only with Lightroom Classic. The only images I store in the cloud are smartpreviews which are shared with others through the Adobe Lightroom web interface, or used in Adobe Spark presentations.

The reason I chose to abandon Adobe's cloud storage is the undeveloped status of the Lightroom CC (non-Classic) app. Years after launch it still has no print or book module and lacks many of the basic elements and tools we take for granted in Classic: batch renaming files, quite a few editing tools. Linking with Photoshop is clunky and there is no way to use other external editors such as SilverEfex of Topaz. I get the impression Adobe launched Lightroom CC with a great fanfare expecting it to be the future of image management and processing, but have been underwhelmed by takeup - and so have cut investment to a repair and maintenance level. It wouldn't surprise me to see it dropped entirely in future.

In my early days of using Lightroom CC and my images in the cloud, I tried using Lightroom Classic in parallel with the non-Classic version, but I got the impression they each thought they were in charge, and carried on a software turf war - each trying to manage the syncing, I had quite a few losses of edited raw images until I stopped using LR Classic (the original raws were OK).

[jmahto]

I use LR mobile only as a means to upload my cellphone pics. This is what I do:

- add cellphone photos To LR mobile (I don’t automatically upload since there is enough junk on cellphone). 
- rate and edit selectively in LR mobile. These get synced to my desktop (LR Classic) automatically. 
- periodically I remove synced photos from my LR classic which deletes them from cloud and LR mobile. Leaving them in my desktop well organized.

I tried adding my desktop pictures to sync folder so that they can get uploaded to cloud and I can work on LR mobile but my experience wasn’t good. Mobile lacks features like virtual copies, hierarchical keywords etc. Editing features are fine though for my purposes. In the end I didn’t see much value in this and revered back to using LR mobile only for cellphone picture workflow. 

[Krusty]

I have a question: Is it possible to show on my Mac Lightroom Classic the whole Creative Cloud Library? I have a lot of Photos, which are only existing in the Creative Cloud and i do not have in the Classic Library.

I want to make my workflow like this: Import every Photo only on my iPad / in the Creative Cloud edition. As soon as the lousy 20GB are full, move it with the classic edition out of the cloud (beginning with the oldest photos first) and store it on my on-prem storage at home, so that there is enough new space free in the cloud. 

This should be okay for my behavior as i mostly want to edit the newer pictures with mobile devices…

[Bobitybob]

You may be better doing it the other way around,

Download all of your images to your desktop Mac/PC from the cloud.  Once you are satisfied that you have all of your images downloaded you can delete the files in the cloud if you wish as you will have the files safely on your desktop.  This will free up your cloud space.

Import the images into LR Classic in the normal way but build Smart Previews as part of the import.

Create collections for the files you want to see on LR Mobile and by right clicking on each collection set it to sync with the cloud.

As LR Classic only uses Smart Previews for syning and not the original file you can upload all of your images without using any of your cloud data allowance.

You can also create a folder in LR Classic to act as a sync dowload point for any files that you may upload via you mobile version (along with any edits etc) and then follow the same proceedure to ensure you don't use up your 20GB.

If you search the Knower of all Things then you should get a number of hits explaining the whole process.

 

[Krusty]

hi, 

thanks for your answer. How do i see all Images which are in the Cloud in Lightroom Classic Edition? Do i always have to add them in Lightroom CC into a synced Collection? Or is it possible to add the Cloud Library itself? 

Why is there not just a simple cloud place in Lightroom Classic on the left side next to my harddisk (like dropbox or icloud does in the finder?)

[Bobitybob]

As I said, In LR Classic create a folder or even chose one of your current folders from the list on the left and right click on it.  Select 'set as location for Lightroom images' and this will open the Lightroom Sync panel in Preferences and it should show your chosen location.  If not or if you want to use another folder you can browse to it from here.  Lightroom will then download the files you have in the cloud and add them to your catalogue.  Alternatively, you can use the Creative Cloud app or log into your Adobe account in your browser and go to 'My Work'. from there you can download, copy, delete etc your files.

Once downloaded to your chosen folder, where they are both on your Mac but also as it is your synced folder, in the cloud move them somewhere else and they should be removed for the cloud.  As long as the files are in the cloud they use up your allocation.

As I said, there are a number of sites on the web that describe this in far more elequante ways than I have, it just takes a little reading.

As for why Adobe do it this way then I have no idea but would assume that it generates more income as account holders will assume they need more storage as they use up their 20GB and thus pay more.

[Krusty]

maybe I understood how there to applications work together (please tell me if I'm right or wrong):

Scenario 1 aka The way down from the cloud: I have a Lightning Card-Reader and I import my SD card on the go to my iPad / iPhone Lightroom. These photographs will be uploaded (as an original RAW file??) to the creative cloud and are also available on my desktop PC in the cloud version of Lightroom.  When I delete now a file now in one of my devices, the picture will be in the trash bin and will be deleted and gone. But when I open Lightroom Classic, all files of the Cloud will be automatically added to local library on my hard disk. when I delete it now in one of the cloud apps, it will be gone there, but it stays in my Lr Classic catalogue on my disk... Right or wrong?

Scenario 2 aka The way up into the cloud: When I import pictures in the catalogue of my Lr Classic, they won't be available until I drag it into "All Synced Photographs" of my catalogue or when I create create a collection --> right mouse button --> "Sync with Lightroom" and drag it there. Then I can make my modifications on the go and when I am done, I delete these pictures on my iPhone / iPad Lightroom and clean up the thrash bin. The file is not longer existing on my mobile devices but the original is still in the Library of my Mac Lr Classic edition and it is Modified (when I did open it before I deleted the file on my iPhone) or unmodified but still existing when I did not open it before I deleted it on my mobile device. Right or wrong?

Best Scenario for me would be: Always import to the Cloud Edition (whether on PC or iPad or Mac). When the 20GB is full, open the classic edition and wait for the automatic sync. When this is done, delete the oldest 300 pics on the cloud edition and then it starts again from the beginning? No picture would be lost an I am super flexible 

 

I hope I that my assumptions are right because then the behavior of these Applications is clear for me....

 

Thank you

Krusty   

Edited August 14, 2021 by Krusty

[Bobitybob]

Very nearly,

In scenario 1, you must move the original images from your download folder in Lightroom Classic to another folder otherwise when you delete them from your mobile device they will also be deleted from Lightroom Classic, as although they are on your Mac they are still effectively in the cloud.  Creative Cloud only has access to the folder you have set as the location for downloads, and as folders are a physical space on your Mac by moving them from the download folder to another one the cloud will not be able to delete them.  Don't move them in the finder as by moving them in Lightroom Classic it's catalogue will also be updated with the new location and they will show as normal.

In scenario 2, you can of course drag any images to a synced collection (you can have them in more than one) at a time, and this would probably be the best way to add images already in your catalogue.  However when you import new images to Lightroom Classic from a card, you can also choose which collection (other than 'all synced photos') you wish to add the the imports to and thus do not need to drag them anywhere.  They will automatically be added to 'all synced photos.  As these images are only smart previews they will not be using any of your cloud allocation, as such, unless you are desparate to get rid of them you don't need to delete them when you have finised editing them.  If you do, they will disappear from the collection but remain in the catalogue and on your Mac and should retain all it's editing etc.

For your final scenario, Images added to Lightroom on your mobile device will be uploaded to the cloud along with any edits etc. You can do this anywhere you have an internet connection and with however many images you wish until you use up your 20GB.  When you next use Lightroom Classic they should download and you would need to apply scenario 1.

Finally, don't delete anything until you are sure you have your originals on your hard drive.

Have a look here if you haven't seen this thread as it shows how mine is set up and this may be useful a a starting point.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323395-ipad-editing-apps/

Edited August 15, 2021 by Bobitybob

[LocalHero1953]

I tried to use LR Classic and the cloud version in tandem for a couple of years, keeping all originals in the cloud, but trying to gain the benefit of LR Classic for better editing, and for printing. I found it risky, because both LR Classic and LR CC (the cliud version) think they 'own' the originals - the conflicts between the two risked losing images - it can be done, but it's easy to make mistakes. I now find it safer to keep originals locally in an LR Classic catalogue, and use LR CC (cloud) for importing new images on the fly while travelling, while putting any images I want access to elsewhere into a synced collection.

It costs quite a lot to keep all your images in the Adobe cloud (I had 2TB storage), and I now find it cheaper (for security, not for easy online access to images) to avoid paying for online Adobe storage, and backing up to Backblaze instead.

LR CC (cloud version) remains limited in functionality - no printing, no external editing except with Photoshop, no batch file renaming, editing tools not up to those in LR Classic, and a number of other missing functions. IMO it has not lived up to the launch promises - perhaps because it hasn't been as widely adopted as expected.

Edited August 15, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[Krusty]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Bobitybob:

Very nearly,

In scenario 1, you must move the original images from your download folder in Lightroom Classic to another folder otherwise when you delete them from your mobile device they will also be deleted from Lightroom Classic, as although they are on your Mac they are still effectively in the cloud.  Creative Cloud only has access to the folder you have set as the location for downloads, and as folders are a physical space on your Mac by moving them from the download folder to another one the cloud will not be able to delete them.  Don't move them in the finder as by moving them in Lightroom Classic it's catalogue will also be updated with the new location and they will show as normal.

In scenario 2, you can of course drag any images to a synced collection (you can have them in more than one) at a time, and this would probably be the best way to add images already in your catalogue.  However when you import new images to Lightroom Classic from a card, you can also choose which collection (other than 'all synced photos') you wish to add the the imports to and thus do not need to drag them anywhere.  They will automatically be added to 'all synced photos.  As these images are only smart previews they will not be using any of your cloud allocation, as such, unless you are desparate to get rid of them you don't need to delete them when you have finised editing them.  If you do, they will disappear from the collection but remain in the catalogue and on your Mac and should retain all it's editing etc.

For your final scenario, Images added to Lightroom on your mobile device will be uploaded to the cloud along with any edits etc. You can do this anywhere you have an internet connection and with however many images you wish until you use up your 20GB.  When you next use Lightroom Classic they should download and you would need to apply scenario 1.

Finally, don't delete anything until you are sure you have your originals on your hard drive.

Have a look here if you haven't seen this thread as it shows how mine is set up and this may be useful a a starting point.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323395-ipad-editing-apps/

I do not know what "my download folder" in Lightroom Classic should be... My Library looks like this... I also don not know why I have so much different folder sources (e.g. iPhone, iPad, M1 Mac mini etc.... it is so confusing and frustrating...

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[Krusty]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Krusty:

I do not know what "my download folder" in Lightroom Classic should be... My Library looks like this... I also don not know why I have so much different folder sources (e.g. iPhone, iPad, M1 Mac mini etc.... it is so confusing and frustrating...

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Hi all,

I think now I understand it.... When I import photos on Lr on my iPhone, they will appear in the Volume "Sebastians iPhone 8" in my Lr Classic in the Folder "Imported Photographs". And of course in my Catalogue in All Photographs. Because the Volume "Sebastians iPhone 8" is Synced itself, I see that arrow symbol next to it. The strange thing is: When I delete that one picture in Lr CC on my Phone, it is away there but still existing in that folder in Lightroom classic. Although when I empty the thrash bin. That is a bit confusing for me... So it is a kind of a one way direction down from the cloud where it is stored on my local disk (In Finder it is in that folder: Lightroom --> Mobile Downloads.lrdata --> ebd6033a2ae****************** --> L1010967.DNG ). It is displayed as an Original DNG file...

That is the reason why all my mobile files are in my Classic Library when I open it... 

 

 

[Bobitybob]

After you posted the screen shot above I was going to ask when you last updated your version of Lightroom Classic.  

It looks like this is an old version of Classic, as I am sure it no longer shows mobile devices as seperate volumes in the Folders area.  Hence why I have said previously that you need to create a download folder to access images in the cloud as the new version requires this and you can only sync collections not folders/volumes/devices.  Again, see the link above as this is a shot of my setup using the latest version of LR Classic and from which you can see it does not include any devices although I do import from my iPad Pro and MacBook Air using LR Mobile.  When I import images using either of of these the full image is uploaded to the cloud and then downloaded to the folder 'Downloaded Cloud Imports' when I next open LR Classic.  When they have downloaded I move them to another folder.  Updating will also give tou the benifit of bug fixes and other improvements etc.

However, if you are happy with your current set up and it works for you then carry on,  but be carefull that the file you are seeing in the Mobile Downloads.Irdata is the full file and not just a preview.  You need to move/copy the images from the Import photos folder for each device to another folder on your Mac to ensure they are still not in the cloud.  

Also, after you delete an image as a precaution Creative Cloud does not delete it immediatly but puts it in a temporary folder in the cloud for 60 days in case you change your mind.  Whilst it's in this temporary folder it still counts against your 20GB.  You can't see this in LR Classic but it will be visable on LR Mobile as the deleted album.

[Krusty]

I doublechecked it and I have the latest version which is available for me (I am not a beta-tester or anything else.) my Version is 10.3 and Camera Raw 13.3. In the Preferences under "Lightroom Sync"  the box "Specify location for Lightroom's Synced images" is un-checked... maybe that is the reason.... But now as I understand the volumes and folders for me it is easier to understand how it works... 

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[Krusty]

I think I got it now. I took a piece of Paper and wrote 1, 2 and 3 on it and imported:

• 1 into Lr on iPhone
• 12 into Lr CC on Mac
• 123 into Lr Classic on Mac 

When I click on my smart collection "changed today" I see all 3 images. 

• 1 was the download from my iPhone --> Cloud import
• 12 was the download from my Mac Lr CC --> Cloud import
• 123 was the local import to Lr Classic.

i didnt put the 123 picture into the Collection "Sync nach Lightroom CC" as I don't want to Upload it from my Mac and so when I open Lr CC on my Mac I also do not see the 123 Image. 

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When I edit a file in Lr CC it changes in the classic edition as well. The same when I edit it in the Classic edition although the file is not in a synced collection. I edit directly that file in the "iPhone 8 Volume".

Now the strange thing.

- When I delete the two files in Lr CC they still remain in the different Volumes on my Mac although the bin is already empty. So the link between the online and the offline version is broken.

- When I delete in Lr Classic a file in the iPhone 8 Volume, which was imported on a Cloud Edition, it will be also removed in the from the Cloud. 

- Moving Files in Lr Classic from the iPhone 8 Volume to the Macintosh HD is possible. Then it will be also removed from the Cloud. Moving from the Macintosh HD to the iPhone 8 Volume is not possible, so you have to move it into a synced collection to bring it up into the cloud

- Conclusion: When I Import 300 Files in Lr CC and I open Lr Classic in the meantime, I have to sort out / delete my Pictures in the Classic Edition on my Mac. Because when I delete them in Lr CC, they still remain in that volumes... Deleting files only works in the direction Mac --> Creative Cloud not vice versa..

Maybe you think I am crazy but this is what I have learned today... I still think that this is confusing and not easy for beginners.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Krusty