pop Posted July 7, 2020 Share #101 Posted July 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 39 Minuten schrieb jankap: A global shutter is different from a simple electronic shutter. Not to speak of a mechanical copal shutter. I understand, that there is shooting out of every gun barrel on this new duck in the pond. Yes; this is what the web site says. I can't find the reference any more where it is stated that the camera does not have a mechanical shutter. Zitat Sensor CMOS sensor, 5.5µm pixel pitch Electronic global shutter APS-C optical format RGB color matrix, optimized with micro-lenses 12-bits sampling rate High dynamic range mode (60-90dB) RAW (DNG) and JPEG format (4080x2732) Native gain: ISO 320 Optical stack : IR filter < 1.0mm, no low-pass filter I'm afraid I don't understand your reference to duck shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 Hi pop, Take a look here Pixii : A new M mount rangefinder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #102 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv: I would wait for reports on RF accuracy. The base appears rather short and it is only 0.67x An APS sensor is more difficult to focus by RF than a FF one - reason the M8 was not meant for 135 mm, Stefan Daniel once explained to me. Hard to imagine that they can beat an optical company with over 70 years of experience and development. Can this rangefinder be compared with Leica CL (analog)? A startup like Mr. Musk makes not only BMW, VW and Mercedes look small, but also Ariane Industries. 70 years so what?? Edited July 7, 2020 by jankap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 7, 2020 Share #103 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) vor 11 Minuten schrieb jankap: Can this rangefinder be compared with Leica CL (analog)? The CL has a rangefinder base of about 32mm vs the PIXII wth 49mm. Edited July 7, 2020 by pop Typo; the base is 49mm not 42mm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 7, 2020 Share #104 Posted July 7, 2020 53 minutes ago, jankap said: Can this rangefinder be compared with Leica CL (analog)? A startup like Mr. Musk makes not only BMW, VW and Mercedes look small, but also Ariane Industries. 70 years so what?? Tesla is a completely different product from conventional cars - no other car maker had long-term experience either. That is not a valid comparison. The Leica CL is notorious for inaccuracy with anything but its own lenses and Leica said so from the start. And full-frame on film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted July 7, 2020 Share #105 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, pop said: I'm afraid I don't understand your reference to duck shooting. I took the analogy to mean that with a global electronic sensor each and every sensel (photosite) will need to be read simultaneously so in a duck-shooting sense the duck pond would be surrounded by shooters who normally would shoot at random moments but, in the global sensor scenario, all of the shooters would shoot at the same moment. A grisly analogy and I hope I haven't misunderstood. Pete. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #106 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) vor 33 Minuten schrieb farnz: I took the analogy to mean that with a global electronic sensor each and every sensel (photosite) will need to be read simultaneously so in a duck-shooting sense the duck pond would be surrounded by shooters who normally would shoot at random moments but, in the global sensor scenario, all of the shooters would shoot at the same moment. A grisly analogy and I hope I haven't misunderstood. Pete. Hi farnz. Look into this thread - of course the Leica Forum - shoot at this newcomer Pixii. There are quite a lot of new arising M-lenses manufactories. I wonder. The market is getting smaller. In another forum I am publishing fotos made by a Lytro Illim. A camera, that was shot down, by the reviewers, in the beginning . The pack wants 50 - 100 Mpx sensors. No thinking, just following the long used roads. What will be the end?? Why not 500Mpixes. I have a early Foveon camera giving very nice colors. But the pack did not like it, because it was different. They were not payed enough?? Edited July 7, 2020 by jankap 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #107 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) As I have understood the gobal shutter takes the values of all pixels and fries them for the write out. No distortion by binding or fluorescent light. Edited July 7, 2020 by jankap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #108 Posted July 7, 2020 vor 52 Minuten schrieb jaapv: Tesla is a completely different product from conventional cars - no other car maker had long-term experience either. That is not a valid comparison. The Leica CL is notorious for inaccuracy with anything but its own lenses and Leica said so from the start. And full-frame on film. Tesla did not have experience too. Experience is nothing against a better concept. Promoting with x years experience is marketing nothing more. Think of Quelle against Amazon or Alibaba. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 7, 2020 Share #109 Posted July 7, 2020 That is not the same as developing a range-finder-viewfinder. In optical industries the design archive is an important asset. Internet shops is an even worse comparison 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted July 7, 2020 Share #110 Posted July 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, jankap said: Tesla did not have experience too. Experience is nothing against a better concept. Promoting with x years experience is marketing nothing more. Think of Quelle against Amazon or Alibaba. I see Tesla cars on towing cars instead of old American SUV now. Amazon and its knock off on the East iare distribution chain, not manufacturing with R&D and service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #111 Posted July 7, 2020 I did not say, that Tesla has the better concept. But he mixes the cards. I was at Ariane Industries same time ago, they mentioned him as somebody who can give a great problem for them. Americans have somehow the better method. To be honest, rangefinder technology works from infinity to 70cm and from 28 to 90mm (ok, 135 somehow). It dates from 1950. My friend had an M3 in 1960 and that was better than my IIIf. That is 60 years ago! That Leica still exists, shows the power of marketing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted July 7, 2020 Share #112 Posted July 7, 2020 29 minutes ago, jankap said: I did not say, that Tesla has the better concept. But he mixes the cards. I was at Ariane Industries same time ago, they mentioned him as somebody who can give a great problem for them. Americans have somehow the better method. To be honest, rangefinder technology works from infinity to 70cm and from 28 to 90mm (ok, 135 somehow). It dates from 1950. My friend had an M3 in 1960 and that was better than my IIIf. That is 60 years ago! That Leica still exists, shows the power of marketing. The reasons Leica still exist are because some people like me used RF cameras as first and for many years camera and due to its legendary history. Speaking of cars manufacturers Leica doesn't even have to do as much of the marketing as Mercedes-Benz does. Leica real strength is in design, IMO. Even their re-banged and overpriced Panasonic cameras have much more appeal. X and Q series beats all other manufactures on appeal as well. Meitz made flashes with Leica label, fw and flash contacts are super cute, including packaging. I guess, design is part of the marketing. BTW, I sold M3 after I purchased SBOOI. It is true 1:1 VF and Barnacks are less expensive to service and more compact. But M3 is better because it doesn't have falling out RF, VF lenses due to plastic frame which never been meant to last 60 years. This is why I have IIIc from fifties instead of IIIf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 7, 2020 Share #113 Posted July 7, 2020 14 hours ago, jaapv said: The marketing is slanted to taking images to put on your phone. Which begs the question: why not just use the phone and leave the camera at home? Well, it's obvious. Your smartphone doesn't have a rangefinder does it? () 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 7, 2020 Share #114 Posted July 7, 2020 Yes, but you will always need two pieces of gear to take a photograph, which does not really fit the Barnack philosophy. Anyway, I wonder. Do you always have to download to your phone first, or can the camera communicate directly with a computer? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #115 Posted July 7, 2020 Back to Pixii, please! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 7, 2020 Share #116 Posted July 7, 2020 vor 1 Minute schrieb jaapv: Yes, but you will always need two pieces of gear to take a photograph, which does not really fit the Barnack philosophy. No, you don't. The PIXII works without your phone. Anyway, I always carry my phone with me, so the point seems moot. I think the concept quite elegant to move the screen (and most of the settings) off the camera. Back when I had an Epson, I had mostly folded the screen away. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 7, 2020 Share #117 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) Mr. Barnack had a separate distance measuring device for the accessory shoe. Back to Pixii. A new chapter for the forum? They use the M-mount at least, perhaps already foreseen by Mr. Barnack. Edited July 7, 2020 by jankap 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 7, 2020 Share #118 Posted July 7, 2020 On a side note: I am so glad that they did not put a Foveon into that thing. That would have been quite hard to resist, I think. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted July 7, 2020 Share #119 Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, pop said: On a side note: I am so glad that they did not put a Foveon into that thing. That would have been quite hard to resist, I think. I completely agree. Pete. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted July 7, 2020 Share #120 Posted July 7, 2020 6 hours ago, vedivv said: Was excited to see a Leica M mount camera by a third party. Then I saw the price tag. As much as I would love to support the company, that's really a lot of money for an aps-c camera. Used 240s in great condition are under $3k these days, and it is very hard to justify buying PIXII (and the old memory dealing with M8 crop factor comes back). Hope the company figure out a way to make it attractive to a wider audience. It's great that the company sold many copies. Would love to hear the decision making process of actual buyers. The PIXII is an interesting camera and I wish the company well. If choosing between it and the CL, I would still choose the CL, though. Others may choose differently, and a apparently a fair number of camera buyers already have. To each his/her own. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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