Pixii : A new M mount rangefinder

[UliWer]

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

Maybe it is just me, but I am not hung up about angle of view. I compose my photographs by the way the composition presents itself to me, Framing can just  as well be done by moving forward or backwards -  often better perspective too. I pay little attention to the number on the barrel

So instead of your 24mm you could also use a 35mm - and it wouldn‘t matter?

[IkarusJohn]

Surely, what you see through the viewfinder needs to correspond (even vaguely, like the M camera viewfinder) to what ends up being captured?

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, UliWer said:

So instead of your 24mm you could also use a 35mm - and it wouldn‘t matter?

 I will attempt to take the best image I can with either lens. Those would be different images, of course, but which would be the better one? Depends on the moment, not on the lens. If one could only take a decent image using one specific lens that would be a rather poor show, don't you think? I prefer to use the tool on hand rather than let the tool dictate my craft.

[jankap]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb UliWer:

So instead of your 24mm you could also use a 35mm - and it wouldn‘t matter?

Of course not. A 24mm and a 35mm differ in perspective. But with cropping one can achieve it. 

[jaapv]

No they don't differ. The only thing that creates perspective is the relative distance between objects as seen from the position of the photographer. The focal length of the lens has nothing to do with it. It will only determine the framing by having a different angle of view.

The reason that this misconception persists is that people will move as they change focal length to strive to maintain the framing of the main subject.

[jankap]

That is trivial.

[jaapv]

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Really? I care about the composition of my images...

[masjah]

I suspect that both of you are looking at the same thing in different ways. It's the camera to subject distance that controls the appearance of the main subject relative to it's environment, but, in order to achieve this control simultaneously with maintaining the same size of the main subject within the frame, then you need to alter the focal length.

[IkarusJohn]

The proof of Jaap’s point is easily achieved.  The proposition is that if the photographer moves, the perspective changes - an uncontroversial statement; more problematic - if the photographer stays put, no focal length will change the perspective.  

So, here’s the proof.  Frame a subject with your longest lens, say 280mm; then switch to a 21mm and move forward to maintain the same framing.  The perspective will have changed, along with the dynamic feel of the image.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by IkarusJohn

[jankap]

What about Pixii? An interesting shutter, but what more?

Why did they choose for a rangefinder? The M-mount is ok, there is enough stock for this mount.

Edited July 10, 2020 by jankap

[LocalHero1953]

When it comes down to it, the shutter and the connectivity are the only things that could be considered 'better' than an M, and even a global electronic shutter is not obviously better than Leica's latest quiet shutter. 

It is at least four times the price at which it might persuade me that I should forego 1. Leica proven performance, esp. in the rangefinder 2. An EVF (I'm not an M10D fan) 3. SD card 4. Full frame 5. All those pixels

The price is so daft that I wonder if they have distributed all the initial run to crowd funders who paid for most of their costs, and have no more to sell for the moment. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, jankap said:

Of course not. A 24mm and a 35mm differ in perspective. But with cropping one can achieve it. 

Wrong, as Jaap explains.  But if you stand in the same place and shoot the same scene with a 24mm and 35mm lens, you can crop the pic after the fact, filling the frame, and you will see how the perspective (which is the relationship between near and far objects) is identical.  Move your feet and that perspective changes.  This was one of the exercises we did when I attended a photo workshop over 30 years ago and, along with other principles, has better informed my shooting techniques. Of course nothing substitutes for having a ‘good eye’, regardless of any teachings.

Jeff

[Ko.Fe.]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:53 AM, adan said:

It has a USB port - which can also be used for battery charging.

I also note the PIXII appears to have at least minimalist internal menus via the top LCD - there is a MENU/OK button and SELECT dial on the back next to the USB port. Likely for ISO, WB and such. Appears it may be possible to shoot independent of a phone, up to the limits of internal memory (4/8 GB).

I also wish them well - especially since trying to compete directly with Leica M in the rangefinder niche since about 1970 has been the path to eventual extinction:

Minolta
Kyocera Contax
Konica
Epson
Yasuhara
Zeiss-Ikon
Voigtlander R
Red Flag
Zorki
FED
 

LOMO (Leningrad) 

[pgk]

49 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The price is so daft that I wonder if they have distributed all the initial run to crowd funders who paid for most of their costs, and have no more to sell for the moment. 

Start ups do need to be ambitious, but they also need to understand that trying to charge Leica/Canon prices is unrealistic without any track record at all. Canon's new offering might be an indicator of what they are also competing against. Sorry, good idea, potentially it may even be a great execution of that idea, but its very overpriced.

[lct]

Same problem as Epson in 2004. Too expensive for a non Leica body. The R-D1's price started at 3,000 EUR if memory serves me well but it had no competitor then. Its price was reduced to 2,000 EUR (R-D1s) two years later but it was too late then.

[jankap]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb pgk:

Start ups do need to be ambitious, but they also need to understand that trying to charge Leica/Canon prices is unrealistic without any track record at all. Canon's new offering might be an indicator of what they are also competing against. Sorry, good idea, potentially it may even be a great execution of that idea, but its very overpriced.

Is there an idea behind it? The global shutter is ok, that is not a simple silent shutter.

An reason to use an OVF could be, that the new sensor can not be used for live view.  But I cannot believe this.

Another reason I think of is, that as they started 3 years ago an OVF was not a nostalgic concept yet.

[jankap]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb lct:

Same problem as Epson in 2004. Too expensive for a non Leica body. The R-D1's price started at 3,000 EUR if memory serves me well but it had no competitor then. Its price was reduced to 2,000 EUR (R-D1s) two years later but it was too late then.

The same with the Sigma Foveon SLR. They even paid money back, if I remember well. Leica cites Mr. Barnack every now and then, giving Leica M a kind of a background.

The market share of M is 1%? So what is the technical concept of Pixii, what were they thinking ?

[adan]

The two pictures below were made with a 75mm lens - and a 21mm lens cropped to the 75mm field of view.

If you can't tell which is which from the perspective, then they have the same perspective (relationships between object position, size and angles).

Perspective = "point-of-view". The place in the universe where light enters the lens. If that does not change, the perspective does not change.

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[jankap]

Imagine, I have a 50mm lens on my camera and the exif data say the focal length is 35,3mm. That must be minus crop.

Edited July 10, 2020 by jankap

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[jankap]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb jankap:

Imagine, I have a 50mm lens on my camera and the exif data say the focal length is 35,3mm. That must be minus crop.

Better: reverse crop.