M10R

[onasj]

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3 hours ago, yggdra.omega said:

Has there been many complaints of how an M10M's processor handles those large files? I know most are assuming there will be no inclusion of the Maestro III in the M10-R, so I'm curious how the M10M's performance (regarding filling the frame buffer) compares to the M10/P and SL2. 

 

I feel like this comparison could be useful in speculation of how the M10-R may perform, unless I'm mistaken.

No, to me there is surprisingly little difference between handling M10-P files and M10-M files both in camera and out of camera.  Perhaps there will be more of an issue with the M10-R, but I assume Leica has addressed any issue if it exists (maybe Maestro III if needed, but I doubt it given that the S3 uses the Maestro II and shoots 3 fps).

Edited July 3, 2020 by onasj

[yggdra.omega]

16 hours ago, onasj said:

No, to me there is surprisingly little difference between handling M10-P files and M10-M files both in camera and out of camera.  Perhaps there will be more of an issue with the M10-R, but I assume Leica has addressed any issue if it exists (maybe Maestro III if needed, but I doubt it given that the S3 uses the Maestro II and shoots 3 fps).

That's encouraging to hear! Perhaps the benefits of the Maestro III vs the II are more evident in the video capabilities of the SL2.

I almost pulled the trigger on a M10M two days ago, but having seen the speculated 16JUL announce date, I am (anxiously) waiting and searching for any scraps of information that may be out there.

[dkmoore]

4 hours ago, yggdra.omega said:

That's encouraging to hear! Perhaps the benefits of the Maestro III vs the II are more evident in the video capabilities of the SL2.

I almost pulled the trigger on a M10M two days ago, but having seen the speculated 16JUL announce date, I am (anxiously) waiting and searching for any scraps of information that may be out there.

 The M10R will be exactly the same as the M10M with the only change being the color filter array. 

You can expect higher megapixel, slightly better ISO, and slightly improved dynamic range as compared to the M10. Similar to the M10P, it will be a fantastic camera.

But, if you are holding out hope for IBIS, video, or any other significant changes, you will be disappointed. (I am not guessing). 

[John Miranda]

Regarding a higher resolution M10.... A wider dynamic range at 16 bit / channel bit depth can easily be compressed, but the opposite isn't true, because the data isn't there.  A higher resolution image can always be down-sampled, but the opposite isn't true, because the data isn't there.  Storage cost is practically free. At higher resolution, an M10-R image can be cropped more aggressively, meaning a long lens can be left at home.  

As for ISO performance, you can reduce noise by reducing image resolution.  The notion that raising resolution kills ISO performance has come up for over a decade, and yet sensors seem to improve both over time, raising resolution while reducing noise.  I have files from a 6MP Nikon D100 (early 2000's era) that were noisy past 400 ISO (AP-C), and the Nikon D2X (12 MP, full frame sensor) that was also quite noisy at 800 ISO.  

My wallet isn't looking forward to it, but I welcome the D10-R.

Cheers,

John

 

[mujk]

Hopefully Leica will not start doing more extensive in-camera processing of raw files to compensate for possible effects of the new sensor. I know they already do some processing in the M10 but, as a general rule, tweaking of raw files should primarily be left to the post processing phase.

[Guest]

When it comes out there will be another better camera just around the corner and so it goes on.

 

[mujk]

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2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I wonder what everyone will be doing with a high megapixel M that could not be done now.
 

As already noted, heavy cropping. The idea behind the Q.

I sometimes crop the output of my 50MP DSLR quite heavily when the 600mm Sigma zoom is not long enough (or I'm too far away), resulting in lousy IQ. Leica primes will of course work much better, but at some point IQ will start to degrade.

[Eric1]

6 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

When it comes out there will be another better camera just around the corner and so it goes on.

 

Well said. I’ll be first in line for M11in a year.

[Marckyokay]

13 hours ago, John Miranda said:

My wallet isn't looking forward to it, but I welcome the D10-R.

You mean M10-R? Or M10-R-D? Or M10-D-R... if yes, then I as well can't wait for that one 😛 

[farnz]

13 hours ago, John Miranda said:

My wallet isn't looking forward to it, but I welcome the D10-R.

 

26 minutes ago, Marckyokay said:

You mean M10-R? Or M10-R-D? Or M10-D-R...

Or perhaps "D10-R" as in Christian "D10R"? 

Pete.

[Marckyokay]

2 minutes ago, farnz said:

Or perhaps "D10-R" as in Christian "D10R"? 

M-D-R? 

R10-D?

Please no Dior special edition...

In all seriousness, I just want an M Camera D Version with the R sensor 😂 

[M11 for me]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Al Brown:

I wonder what everyone will be doing with a high megapixel M that could not be done now.
 

It was already written: Imagine you can go out with just a 28mm lens on your new M10-R and you can behave as if you had a 35mm and a 50mm with you at the same time. That is why people buy the Q2 I imagine. I own a Q2 and the idea behind that concept is fabulous. So it is not so much about the high MP that someone would need but about cropping. Even with strong cropping you have still enough data to create large prints. I imagine that I would more often go out with just one lens whereas today I have 2 or 3 lenses with me most of the time.

[bags27]

1 hour ago, M10 for me said:

It was already written: Imagine you can go out with just a 28mm lens on your new M10-R and you can behave as if you had a 35mm and a 50mm with you at the same time. That is why people buy the Q2 I imagine. I own a Q2 and the idea behind that concept is fabulous. So it is not so much about the high MP that someone would need but about cropping. Even with strong cropping you have still enough data to create large prints. I imagine that I would more often go out with just one lens whereas today I have 2 or 3 lenses with me most of the time.

Of course, an M10-R with an equivalent lens (28 Lux) would cost 3 times as much with no autofocus on demand, no OIS, no macro, no video, and no weather sealing. But, a lot more charm! 😃

Edited July 4, 2020 by bags27

[scott kirkpatrick]

12 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I wonder what everyone will be doing with a high megapixel M that could not be done now.
 

I would guess getting shadows that you can dig one stop deeper into and maybe smoother highlight rolloff, both of which would come anyway if the pixels had the same qualities as the pixels of the 24 MPx versions.  Maybe a bit better, given the reactions that I have seen to the S3s that are now being shipped as production units.  So a 4 year step ahead in DR at 40 MPX and more than that at normal output sizes.  It's just evolution.  

 

BTW, what was the scuttlebutt explanation that all of this technology, in its S3 form, was announced in 2018, but held for a year, leading to 2 or perhaps three of these derivatives of the same imaging chip technology all coming to market at once?

[Guest]

Newest / latest does not mean best /greatest it just means newest/latest ,nothing more than that.

Of course a great many people already know that truth.

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

BTW, what was the scuttlebutt explanation that all of this technology, in its S3 form, was announced in 2018, but held for a year, leading to 2 or perhaps three of these derivatives of the same imaging chip technology all coming to market at once?

It seems the S3 had some technical issues that resulted in a launch delay.  But the release sequencing is similar to the S007 launch, which was much later than the M240 release, even though the sensor in the latter was apparently derived from the S007 (as Nicci explained in another thread).
 

Jeff

[LBJ2]

12 hours ago, Jeff S said:

It seems the S3 had some technical issues that resulted in a launch delay.  But the release sequencing is similar to the S007 launch, which was much later than the M240 release, even though the sensor in the latter was apparently derived from the S007 (as Nicci explained in another thread).
 

Jeff

Where is this Nicci thread to refer to so often. I'd like to read it too. 

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Where is this Nicci thread to refer to so often. I'd like to read it too. 

See, for instance, posts# 22, 26, 38 and 73..

Jeff

[scott kirkpatrick]

Nicci made the point that on a single efficient size Si wafer, which now would be 12" in diameter, it is common practice to print chips of several different sizes that use the same basic design libraries and are destined for customers in related markets.  The example that has been mentioned is imaging chips for 150 MPx, 64 MPx and 40 MPx.  How many of each to make requires knowing how many are contracted for in each size, the expected yield at each size and the best way to lay them out on a circular area to eliminate any wasted space.  That's an interesting optimization, but probably takes only a second or two to solve once the input assumptions are known. 

Imaging chips are made on relatively stable , not leading edge processing lines, since their dimensions are less critical than those of the latest microprocessors or densest memories.  But where? That's what I would like to know in order to understand what is taking so long, and to what extent production of interesting digital cameras can recover from the logistical problems of corona virus.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jk1002]

Any guesses which photographer they will use for the initial marketing wave in the announcement like they had Steve McCurry for the SL2 ... Someone with Landscape background maybe? 
I would think M10P stays around marketed for the street crowd, M10R for landscape and travel? The pricing in the US I find confusing with the M10-M being cheaper than the 10M-P