M10R

[Anakronox]

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34 minutes ago, jplomley said:

I can see 47 MP for landscape photography, but is this not overkill for street photography?

Ever since getting into rangefinders, I mostly shoot street - funny how that worked out!  The M10M is my go-to for most of my shooting, but that could just be because it’s so good in any light, with just about any lens.  I can also crop like crazy if my composition isn’t perfect, thanks to the added resolution.  I do tend to carry the M10 as well in case I see something that benefits from color.  Oh, and monochrome landscapes and cityscapes are awesome with it.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by Anakronox
Grammar

[dkmoore]

M10R will not have IBIS, sorry folks. 

I was in the camp that 24 MPX was enough until now and having spent the last 3 months with the M10M. I'm absolutely onboard for a higher MP M10R. 

In fact, when I do a shoot with both cameras (M10M & M10P), I often pixel peep the M10P because the M10M is so much crisper and sharper that at regular viewing it makes it seem like the M10P is out of calibration. I am no pixel peeper and I have to remind myself that they are on different playing fields and there is nothing wrong with my M10P! 

Edited June 26, 2020 by dkmoore

[fatihayoglu]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I share your thoughts. I will not pick up the M10-R if it did not offer IBIS after experiencing the benefits of it from the SL2. So a 41MP sensor will not cut the mustard. I will have to wait for the M11 then. At 47MP, there will be IBIS as it is the sensor that offers IBIS. And because of IBIS, there can be Multishot function.

First multi shot cameras predates IBIS by a decade nearly. So no, IBIS is not necessary for multi shot and multi shot is not on sensor.

[dkmoore]

2 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

First multi shot cameras predates IBIS by a decade nearly. So no, IBIS is not necessary for multi shot and multi shot is not on sensor.

Agreed. You can bracket shots with the M10 and merge them in photoshop. Maybe that is the poor man's multi-shot mode. 😂

Edited June 26, 2020 by dkmoore

[scott kirkpatrick]

21 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

First multi shot cameras predates IBIS by a decade nearly. So no, IBIS is not necessary for multi shot and multi shot is not on sensor.

What camera do you have in mind? 

My first exposure to multishot was with Olympus, who also pioneered IBIS as it is currently done with a moveable sensor   I spent some time in researching super-resolution based on taking multiple shots with random displacements and then averaging them, using bezel-mounted cameras in early Thinkpad laptops (circa 1997 or so).  And example was capturing business cards by holding them in your hand in front of the camera  Your natural shakiness gave rise to lots of images, each slightly displaced.  It works fine (and somebody is probably using it in cellphones today).  But there is no magic to it, just a slight improvement in resolution results.  So moving the sensor by half pixel steps is a much bigger improvement.

[onasj]

I seriously doubt the M10R will have IBIS, or pixel-shift multishot images, or EVF.  I’ll be happy with a 40.8 MP color camera with very good (a7riii-league) high-ISO performance, native ISO range from 100-12,500, M10P shutter and touchscreen.  I think we will get all of these features, soon.

Despite today’s Nokishita photos, I hope the M10R is released in silver, or silver and black options.  Silver is nice not only for the throwback look, but also because it makes it very easy to identify either an M10R or an M10M from the same bag.

Edited June 26, 2020 by onasj

[Jeff S]

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3 hours ago, jplomley said:

I can see 47 MP for landscape photography, but is this not overkill for street photography? Is this genre really associated with technically perfect images? My feeling is that Leica has gotten caught up in the MP race and it's now impacting platforms where its not really required. Makes sense for higher MP in the SL2 and the S3, but not their street machines.

The MP train started years, and several M generations,  ago.  Remember all the posts here that users were fully content with the 18 MP provided by the M9. And later that 24MP was the sweet spot, only to receive a Monochrom 246 version with even more effective resolution. And then came the 40MP M10 Monochrom, effectively closer to 60MP.  The industry is shrinking and resolution sells cameras, despite all the protestations to the contrary.  I expect a 40-ish MP M10R based on the M10M sensor.  M users like options... standard, screen-less, special editions, b/w only.... and probably now one with high resolution. 
 

Even though I have no need for more MP beyond my 24 MP M10, I said the same about the SL, and would have been content with a 24 MP SL2.  But now that I’ve experienced the SL2, I wouldn’t want to change it.  I use my M bodies (currently M10 and M Monochrom) for all types of subject matter, not just street, and have done so since the 80’s. But now, with extended ISO capability to go along with higher MP, I don’t see a compelling need for IBIS or tripod use. Portability and discretion are stiill key attributes for my M shooting, even beyond street use.  But I’ll be keeping my Monochrom for its rendering capabilities and workflow.

Jeff

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jeff S

[sillbeers15]

One can be contended with a GSM900 basic mobile phone and urge the non essentials of a smartphone for basic mobile communication. Unfortunately a GSM900 phone can only function as a desk top dead weight as the GSM network has been redundant for years.

Similarly the digital makers want and have to choose from the current technology sensor suppliers’ parts bin. So while you can remain happy on 24MP while the rest of the world moves on. One cannot even get a M9 CCD sensor replaced today when needed. So it will be as good as a GSM900 phone when the sensor goes. Tomorrow same scenario will take place on the 24MP sensor. Life just needs to go on. Same fate will happen to our gasoline powered cars we’ve grown attached to. I may not like that but I cannot stop the trend.

Edited June 27, 2020 by sillbeers15

[Jeff S]

Plus Leica, like other camera companies, benefits by spreading investment costs across product platforms.  As Nicci discussed in another thread, the S007 sensor density led to the M240, and the S3’s shared with the M10 Monochrom (and perhaps the M10 R). Without those purchase commitments and economies, costs would likely be prohibitive. Dominoes.

Jeff

[setuporg]

13 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I share your thoughts. I will not pick up the M10-R if it did not offer IBIS after experiencing the benefits of it from the SL2. So a 41MP sensor will not cut the mustard. I will have to wait for the M11 then. At 47MP, there will be IBIS as it is the sensor that offers IBIS. And because of IBIS, there can be Multishot function.

I'm afraid your mustard is safe uncut.  Leica told how it had to get rid of the safety pin in the tripod receiving setup on the bottom to fit the gyroscope for the IBIS.  So there's no way it will fit any M body before M11, or some descendant of it, if any...

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

I'm afraid your mustard is safe uncut.  Leica told how it had to get rid of the safety pin in the tripod receiving setup on the bottom to fit the gyroscope for the IBIS.  So there's no way it will fit any M body before M11, or some descendant of it, if any...

You may be right. But we will see. The days to a M body with a 50 MP sensor with IBIS isn’t far away. Besides what other step change new features can Leica make it’s customers open up their wallet and forsake their M10?

[mike3996]

The totally valid alternative strategy would be to keep M11 in 24 megapixels, maybe with a better sensor (lower native ISO, better DR). Urge landscapers and such to check out the SL2. M is a niche camera, 24 megapixels may soon be a niche too, so they go well hand in hand.

You keep asking for IBIS don't be surprised if Leica reintroduces M5 body back lol

[Jon Warwick]

As the Ms apparently continue their march towards higher megapixels, I would hope that Leica also improve the (detachable) EVFs.  I‘m a recent convert to the SL2, and so arguably in the honeymoon period of enjoying superbly accurate focus, but it does now make me query if a traditional M rangefinder is too much of a compromised system for very high resolution sensors. With the option of upgraded (ie, superb) detachable EVF, it would be a good hybrid system though, IMHO. I did some portraits yesterday with my SL2 and SL 50 APO, all at f2, with the eye off centre and all perfectly sharp from the AF-C autofocus. Personally, I would never have achieved that consistent focusing accuracy (and more interesting composition) with my Ms using the traditional rangefinder alone.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[mjrp]

I for one am really hoping the M doesn't become a bloated, feature rich, multi-shot, IBIS loaded camera, it's not what it is for me. There are alternatives available now with those features and the M has survived because of its simple clean reduction to what is required to take beautiful images. I use my M for everything and it lacks nothing for me. There are things I'd like to see but they are simple, like the thumb rest from the M10D which as a regular user of flash would be excellent, removing the need to swap out the thumbs up every time I fit the flash trigger, I think that was a genuinely great feature. The push for more mp's is just the nature of technology responding to market forces but I'd also personally be happy with better rather than more pixels, not that I find my images being held back by the current capabilities, far more from my abilities!

Anyway, we all want different things, hopefully it's just a great camera, those who buy it will I'm sure enjoy it.

 

[setuporg]

All the trouble in the M forum happens when SL/Q folks come and push for EVF and now IBIS.  Who cares?  I just got am M9M and boy what an amazing camera.  After M10 it holds its own.  Really all the IBIS could be happening in SL2.  X1Dii is great and so is Leica S.  M10 is perfect.  M10M is divine.  Let me quote infamous Ken Rockwell, who got Leica so right, even facetiously.

Good  Immortal LEICA.  Hand-made in the High Holy City of Wetzlar, Germany.   Bad  Nothing; this is a LEICA.   Missing  Nothing needed is missing.

[setuporg]

10 hours ago, Anakronox said:

Ever since getting into rangefinders, I mostly shoot street - funny how that worked out!  The M10M is my go-to for most of my shooting, but that could just be because it’s so good in any light, with just about any lens.  I can also crop like crazy if my composition isn’t perfect, thanks to the added resolution.  I do tend to carry the M10 as well in case I see something that benefits from color.  Oh, and monochrome landscapes and cityscapes are awesome with it.  

Also Russia lends itself to B&W so well.:)

[ianman]

6 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

One cannot even get a M9 CCD sensor replaced today when needed.

Is this true?

[Anakronox]

26 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Also Russia lends itself to B&W so well.:)

Yes, yes it does!  But for 3 months each year, you can shoot in color

[Anakronox]

18 minutes ago, ianman said:

Is this true?

No, Not at least as of February.  Leica still offered a sensor replacement for a M9M I had purchased from B&H.  It wasn’t for corrosion reasons, rather dead lines of pixels.  

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[Casey Jefferson]

I came from GFX 50R and now M240 shooter. Apart from the shadow recovery that isn't as good as the GFX (well there's M10) there really nothing I would like it to improve.

A high resolution M camera is always a welcome but it doesn't take long for one to realize high megapixels will only lead to more frustrations. It was such a relief to have gone back to 24mp and I can shoot more liberally.